For Those of You with Historical Knowledge (recording)...
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- Gregg Juke
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For Those of You with Historical Knowledge (recording)...
So, a question for the TapeOp historians, regarding doubling.
If the 4-track and 8-track recorders didn't become widely available until the late 60's, how was doubling accomplished, most of the time, in the 50's and early 60's? I know that Les Paul was doing disk-to-disk multiples long ago, and I know about sel-sync and sound-on-sound, and I know that Motown had their own homebrew 3-track machines before a lot of other folks. But if that was pretty rare, and live mono recording was the norm/de rigguer, how/why are soooo many records filled with obviously doubled lead vocals? Was there a standard way of accomplishing this, or was it up to the producer/engineer/studio and whatever proprietary techniques that they could come up with?
I know that Geoff Emerick has mentioned a mechanical/tape-loop(?) "doubling machine" that accomplished a lot of the Beatles vox ("John Lennon loved it!").
Even though it was possible technically, I think (my sense) is that it was still mostly, by and large, unlikely, and yet, there are so many records with obviously doubled lead vox. I've been listening to oldies AM radio recently, and it really is there. Case in point-- Ricky Nelson's "Fools Rush In" (but I heard many more).
So, what up with that? If you know...
GJ
If the 4-track and 8-track recorders didn't become widely available until the late 60's, how was doubling accomplished, most of the time, in the 50's and early 60's? I know that Les Paul was doing disk-to-disk multiples long ago, and I know about sel-sync and sound-on-sound, and I know that Motown had their own homebrew 3-track machines before a lot of other folks. But if that was pretty rare, and live mono recording was the norm/de rigguer, how/why are soooo many records filled with obviously doubled lead vocals? Was there a standard way of accomplishing this, or was it up to the producer/engineer/studio and whatever proprietary techniques that they could come up with?
I know that Geoff Emerick has mentioned a mechanical/tape-loop(?) "doubling machine" that accomplished a lot of the Beatles vox ("John Lennon loved it!").
Even though it was possible technically, I think (my sense) is that it was still mostly, by and large, unlikely, and yet, there are so many records with obviously doubled lead vox. I've been listening to oldies AM radio recently, and it really is there. Case in point-- Ricky Nelson's "Fools Rush In" (but I heard many more).
So, what up with that? If you know...
GJ
- JGriffin
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One possibility is that a doubled vocal was recorded live during a reduction pass from one 3- or 4-track machine to another.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."
"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno
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"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno
All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/
- Snarl 12/8
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I know you're joking, but I was wondering how come everyone is so sure it's not just a second vocalist? I'm not trying to be an a-hole, or sarcastic. It seems like there's context here that I'm missing. Maybe I glorify the old days too much, but it seems like back then musicians and singers were much more skilled than your average singer in a studio these days. People knew how to blend and how to sound like other people even, in live situations or whenever it was needed.vvv wrote:It's a little known secret, but John Lennon's vocals were often doubled by Yoko, ...
... just like Paul's were by Linda, ...
... and Ricky's by Ozzie and Harriet.
- Gregg Juke
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I suppose that could have happened once or twice, Carl, but it doesn't explain what I'm hearing. You know how you can tell when a vocal is doubled? Early to mid Beatles as an example? Well, I hear a lot of that. Check out the Ricky Nelson tune I referenced. That's (both voices) Ricky. And in those "more talented" days (I'm inclined to agree with you), having someone else double a lead for somebody of that stature would have resulted in a much bigger scandal than Milli-Vanilli or today's Auto-Tune caca. Somehow, the actual lead vocalist was doing a thickening pass, sometimes breaking-out in harmony (as on the previously mentioned "Fools Rush In"), so I'm just wondering if there was a standard technique, or a multiplicity...(?)
Bob Olhsson told me that overdubs are as old as Caruso. Just wondering what might have been the standard back in the days when everything was "live off the floor" and in mono.
GJ
Bob Olhsson told me that overdubs are as old as Caruso. Just wondering what might have been the standard back in the days when everything was "live off the floor" and in mono.
GJ
Didja's see this?
Or this:
"In 1947, Putnam made the first recording of a single artist singing more than one line on a recording. Patti Page sang one vocal line of "Confess",[2] a duet in which the second part was recorded onto a large 17.25" disc and then played back as she sang the main vocal line; the two vocals and accompaniment being wedded onto a wire recorder. Les Paul followed in short order with his own quite different technique for doubling vocals."
Or this:
"In 1947, Putnam made the first recording of a single artist singing more than one line on a recording. Patti Page sang one vocal line of "Confess",[2] a duet in which the second part was recorded onto a large 17.25" disc and then played back as she sang the main vocal line; the two vocals and accompaniment being wedded onto a wire recorder. Les Paul followed in short order with his own quite different technique for doubling vocals."
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Half-track machines were totally around in the early 60s, so doubled vocals were often printed (along with solos, percussion, etc.) to the track opposite the full-band take. And then, if there was a half-track or multi-track machine in use, additional instruments were often added during the mixing pass. Those additions wouldn't be present on the multi-track, just on the mix reel.
Chris Garges
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Chris Garges
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