Seeking advice on a possible church

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evilaudio
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Seeking advice on a possible church

Post by evilaudio » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:34 pm

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An exciting opportunity has come up for me to possibly be in a position to acquire this church that also has a small parsonage on the property.
I call out to you, my Tape Op brothers and sisters, for help and advice in my quest for a better studio!
Haters and posers leave the hall! This is tickling my DIY spirits!!

It really seems like a good deal and is definitely right in-line with how I wanted to progress and expand my budding business.

My wife, pets, and I would live right next door in a small house (that unfortunately needs updates and stuff, but whatever...).

My business has been good, and I have always wanted a nice big room to make records in. I have been looking for a new space, and to finally be able to separate my living arrangements from the business. Churches have the obvious vibe, look, and feel I would definitely desire! This one was built in 1886 and has been beautifully taken care of from what I have seen so far. I work with everything from classical ensembles to full-on black metal bands and "big band" acoustic folk, etc. - a good amount of a lot of different genres, and personally prefer more organic recordings, and using natural space as reverb, efx, etc., the "old way", if you will... (why I like it here so much!)

There are a ton of things to consider (I am quickly realizing) and it would mean a move to a different (smaller) city (with bigger cities very reasonably close-by, so I am not very worried about losing my client base - actually I am optimistic this will help draw more work) and probably 100 other uncertain things I will find out about, but for now I am simply looking for some outside opinions on a room like this for tracking drums and live bands, etc. and whatever else (specifically this style of sanctuary room)... it's somewhere between 2500 and 2993 square feet and probably 25-30 foot-high ceilings... I'm no expert, but I believe this would be a VAST improvement over my (2nd) basement studio I've been running with for the past 8 years or so...(AE'ing for about 15 now). Obviously, it will also allow me opportunities to host sessions that would be otherwise impossible in a small basement setting. I am very excited about this whilst trying to keep my feet on the ground!
I know I'll need acoustic treatment and gobos, etc. (which I have and can make more of), but I really plan on keeping it as true and original as possible, a proper control room can and will come later (there are offices behind the mural-wall), and it has a full basement for any isolation needs and just plenty of room for making "dead" recording rooms (not worried about that at all!).

This is one of those seemingly really good opportunities I feel like I should jump-on while I can 'cuz it would be very rare to find something similar, but if there's something glaringly "bad" about this particular type of room acoustically, please let me know. These are the kinds of things that I need to figure out before really seriously moving on it and I really trust the people here.

I will be taking an assortment of instruments over the next weekend, so I will definitely have some chances to see for myself what the room "sounds" like. I guess I'll just run a stereo recording device in various places around the room, up in the balcony, etc... just for different perspectives? Is that a good idea? (Any tips on "testing" a room for recording?)

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts!

A view from the back, under the balcony:

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Here's the other way looking back from the altar area, back-left:

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...and back-right of the sanctuary:

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This is looking down from the balcony:

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Front-right corner:

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:shock:
Blah!

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T-rex
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Post by T-rex » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:48 pm

Balcony control room, Abbey Road Lives!!!

That is all. . .

Actually, I can't offer you any advice in tracking in a place like that personally, but I wish you the greatest of luck. :D

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evilaudio
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Post by evilaudio » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:50 pm

I know man, I know...!!
hah hah, I appreciate it, none-the-less!
Blah!

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:25 pm

Cool!

IF you do this, I would consider placing some absorption along the walls, and the first angle before the ceiling as well.

Not TOO much, but enough to control that wacky space and wackier reflections you are going to get.

This is a "modern" church building, and as such is not designed to carry or move sound around like older Catholic churches.

But, it IS a huge space, and that is a Good Thing for microphones.

I would NOT put the "control" room on the balcony at all, but under it, at ground level. This is because I guarantee you it will sound awful up in that space, and also the cooling in the summer up there will be hard on your wallet.

Also, you'll want to get rid of about half of the pews, or even 2/3s of the pews. Leave some for live shows.

Do you have any exact dimensions?

If I were you, I would research what Danny Lanois did with his church space in Ojai, CA. It is around the same size, I think... look him up, maybe his assistant can give you some tips.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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goose134
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Post by goose134 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:50 pm

Wow. Seems like a really cool opportunity. Can't comment too much on the sonics of the room, but, as you say, it must be a tremendous improvement. I think the comment about the tracking room getting hot is probably accurate. It could be cooled, of course, but it could get expensive. That said, it would free up the whole main area for tracking.

If it's got a basement, try running the cabling down there and up to the areas of the room you'll need it in. It would behoove you to have the electrical system gone over. Many times churches are cobbled together by well meaning, but not professional people. I'm sure the initial build is done well, it's the stuff that gets added on to it. Let me know if you've got specific concerns or questions.
I make a living as an electrician, not recording in the basement.

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evilaudio
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Post by evilaudio » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:01 pm

good stuff, exactly what I am seeking, thanx!!

There IS central Air, but yeah, probably pretty salty to run it... luckily our summers are fairly short and mild. Otherwise, we'll just have to see.... heating is what I'm really worried about! Also a full proper inspection (including electrical) will be done before any actual final decisions are made, of course, but it sure is great to know I can ask specific questions if I need to ('cuz I probably will!), thanx!

I was wondering about those angles up towards the ceilings. The room is pretty much perfectly symmetrical, so that's what makes me wonder a bit on the acoustics...
Good thing for microphones = YES!! I like that!
Too early to say, but CR I envision going in the "offices" behind the mural wall.
The pews will be removed, but that's a grand idea to leave some for shows!!
I will get exact dims as soon as I can - even if I have to measure myself, hah!
Blah!

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:39 pm

evilaudio wrote:good stuff, exactly what I am seeking, thanx!!

There IS central Air, but yeah, probably pretty salty to run it... luckily our summers are fairly short and mild. Otherwise, we'll just have to see.... heating is what I'm really worried about! Also a full proper inspection (including electrical) will be done before any actual final decisions are made, of course, but it sure is great to know I can ask specific questions if I need to ('cuz I probably will!), thanx!

I was wondering about those angles up towards the ceilings. The room is pretty much perfectly symmetrical, so that's what makes me wonder a bit on the acoustics...
Good thing for microphones = YES!! I like that!
Too early to say, but CR I envision going in the "offices" behind the mural wall.
The pews will be removed, but that's a grand idea to leave some for shows!!
I will get exact dims as soon as I can - even if I have to measure myself, hah!
Cool.

I would still keep the control room in the big room. I am a HUGE fan of recording artists in the same room with me. Communication is instantaneous, and there is less of an "us vs them" attitude going on. Just put the console facing towards the pulpit / stage area, as if you are doing a live show. Except it's not "live" unless you bring in a crowd. As to the pews, it would be cool to have like three rows right in front where they are now, and get some other pews to line up against the walls. This way people can sit anywhere they like, put gear on the pews, etc. And, the pews along the walls can hide the cable runs so no one steps on them by accident.

If you can keep some of the "holy" furniture, like the pulpit itself, and the prayer benches along with one or two of the "thrones", the dark metal bands will love you the more for it. Paint those a dark wood color such as mahogany.

and decorate the walls where there is no sound absorption with darker colored tapestry type stuff. You can go apeshit in there...

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Post by JGriffin » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:59 pm

Seems very cool. I've been wanting to acquire a church in which to build a studio for a long time now, but I really can't afford it and the only churches up for sale are way on the far side of the city and that wouldn't really make sense. Good luck with your (my) dream project!

* is jealous *
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evilaudio
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Post by evilaudio » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:27 am

Nick, excellent ideas, thank you so much!! Hiding cable runs under the pews along the walls is gold! Using the "thrones" and tapestries... oh yeah!!! I can see some serious photo ops for those bands, hah hah!
Hey - since you mention the control room being in the same room... I am totally a fan of that as well and how I would plan to roll at first, it's how I've been running my basement studios all these years and I agree you can't beat the communication and teamwork mindset (besides, I won't be able to afford a proper build-out right away). Now, would you suggest surrounding that "area" with some gobo stuff to keep sound somewhat contained, or would the wide open space be "good" for critical listening? I wonder if it would get kinda washy at high volumes in there with all the reverb I'm probably going to have... under the balcony may help contain it, though... is that what you're suggesting? I guess ultimately - I won't know 'til I get there...

OK, so just to clarify: I am still in the "looking" stages. No where near actually knowing if I can/will do this yet (so no one get too jealous yet, please! hah hah hah!). There's a LOT that can smash this dream to pieces in a hurry...
Blah!

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:38 am

Hi,

I don't think the large space will be an issue with listening. I listen at 82 and 72 dB when mixing, and almost never at really loud levels.

As to placing gobos, use your ears as you do so...
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Marc Alan Goodman
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Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:15 pm

It looks totally awesome.


I'm helping.

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evilaudio
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Post by evilaudio » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:38 pm

Hey, thank you very much Marc!
It's a real treat to have you chime in! (...all you "heavy hitters" actually!) I've been admiring your work (Marc) for years and really am enjoying following your new studio build! Congratulations on that!!

It's guys like you that inspire me to follow my dreams!

:^:
Blah!

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Marc Alan Goodman
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Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:41 pm

Hell, if you get that church you'll be inspiring me to follow mine! :)

Thanks for the kind words.

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Post by goose134 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:13 pm

Well, if you get the church you will no longer be able to say "suffering from studio suck". Maybe something like "Enjoying Biblical reverb"
I make a living as an electrician, not recording in the basement.

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goose134
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Post by goose134 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:14 pm

Speaking of reverb, what's going on in the bell tower? Might be a nice reverb chamber.
I make a living as an electrician, not recording in the basement.

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