Internships: Label vs. Studio

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egr
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Internships: Label vs. Studio

Post by egr » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:14 pm

My day job work schedule will soon be changed in such a way that I will have 7 days out of every two weeks off. I want to use this time to intern purely as a learning experience (well not purely but I'm not delusional either).

I've read plenty about interning at a studio. Can anybody give a similar type description of what it is like to intern for a label? Major, minor, vanity, whatever level of business you've had experience with would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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Post by egr » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:47 pm

Forgot to add: I graduated from college in '98 with a bachelors in Pysics and Math so... I'm probably not qualified for most internships to begin with right?
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Post by fossiltooth » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:48 pm

Sure! Basically, you work for free, doing an entry-level job that they used to pay people for. Then, they toss you.

...It's kind of a racket. (Although I admit that I am not entirely unbaised: http://trustmeimascientist.com/2012/10/ ... rned-evil/ :) )

If you're A ) doing it for school credit, B ) if they pay minimum wage, or C )if the company really goes out of its way to offer you legitimate training, then it's legal. If they don't do that, then it's not legal. There are currently at least 3 major class action lawsuits regarding this practice that are in the works right now.

Also, from a business standpoint, it's probably high time that the major labels started learning from young people, rather than the other way around. I say skip it, unless you're in school doing it for credit, or if they pay you a reasonable stipend. Just my $.02 there.

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Post by fossiltooth » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:53 pm

On a more positive note, if you want to work a cool music job for free, check out some local non-profits!

That's 100% ethical and 100% more badass. You will also get significantly more valuable high-level experience. Public and community radio stations, local non-profit arts and music venues, that kind of thing.

That's exactly what they were invented for. If big profitable corporations want your empassioned labor, they can pay for it.
Last edited by fossiltooth on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by egr » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:06 pm

Oh wow, hadn't even thought about issues of legality as a non-student intern. :?
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Post by Scodiddly » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:17 pm

A third option would be to look for work in the live sound field. You can learn a *lot* working shows, and get paid as well.

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Post by The Scum » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:19 pm

The best money I made as an undergrad was working local crew when traveling productions came to town.

Label internship? At one time that might have been code for "cold calling radio program directors."
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Post by Bro Shark » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:11 pm

Live sound and recording demos for bands... even if it's on a 4-track... Way better than getting shit on by some grouchy old turd(s).

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Post by egr » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:03 am

As much as i would enjoy learning more about recording and live sound, it's label functions that i actually need/want more exposure to. I.E. organizing events, dealing with venues, improving my promotion skills, finding more oportunities for my artists (liscensing, tours, etc).

I guess all that falls under artist management now that I've spelled it out. Suggestions for that type of experience? I feel that I'm close to hitting a wall with my diy efforts.
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Post by chris harris » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:09 am

egr wrote:As much as i would enjoy learning more about recording and live sound, it's label functions that i actually need/want more exposure to. I.E. organizing events, dealing with venues, improving my promotion skills, finding more oportunities for my artists (liscensing, tours, etc).

I guess all that falls under artist management now that I've spelled it out. Suggestions for that type of experience? I feel that I'm close to hitting a wall with my diy efforts.
Actually, most of that stuff is handled by specialized professionals like:

Show/Event Promoters - "organizing events"
Promoters and Booking Agents - "dealing with venues"
Independent Promoters - "improving my promotion skills"
Managers and Publishers and Booking Agents - "finding more oportunities for my artists (liscensing, tours, etc)."

Major labels and maybe some of the bigger indies will have in-house promotions...

But, for the most part, most labels exist just to sell records. And, what you'd likely learn from interning at a label is: Quickbooks, inventory management, advertising strategies, budget management, office management, etc.

I agree with nearly every single piece of advice that you've received so far.

Justin's right. There's not really a lot that you could learn from a traditional record label that will be very useful 5 or 10 years from now. Everything is changing RIGHT NOW. You're learning right alongside labels that have done it forever. Jump in the game. Be a pioneer and a competitor.

It's pretty fascinating. The things that I've been obsessively following the last couple of years are: whether or not a significant market still VALUES music, whether or not traditional physical distribution is necessary, Can the boutiquey trend-fueled nature of the vinyl resurgence sustain itself?, who are the arbiters of taste?, What motivates them? Are music mags relevant? Are blogs over?

The whole system is still sooooo "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". The internet hasn't democratized things nearly as much as we'd all love to believe.

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Post by Gregg Juke » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:46 pm

I'm not sure that I agree with much of the advice above, in that most larger labels are now going "360," which means by nature and definition they must be into all of those things that you mentioned, and business principles and philosophy (even if it's to "know the enemy") will not change much in 5-10 (or 100) years, it's just the technology that is changing (and remember, these are the folks that had "new technology" and "distribution throughout the known universe" clauses in their contracts back in the 60's and 70's)...

That being said, the one thing I never did do was work for or intern at a major label or distributor. I did spend quite a few years in public radio and in music retail, and it was great experience on a number of levels, so there are other options and possibilities for you that may be more "right" for you; you'll just have to put some thought and research into this. You may even be able to put some hours in at one of the other independent businesses that Chris mentioned, or consider working/volunteering at a club that books touring musicians. There's a lot that you can learn from a number of sources, but a lot of this depends on where you live too.

GJ

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Post by egr » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:49 am

chris harris: "You're learning right alongside labels that have done it forever."

That's both comforting and frustrating at the same time.

Thanks for all the opinions. I've found a local "media group" that is fairly new and are booking shows and acts that I'm into. I've talked a little with them and sent a pseudo-resume, hopefully I can get in on the ground floor with them and actually do some interesting stuff. :D
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Post by chris harris » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:46 am

Gregg Juke wrote:I'm not sure that I agree with much of the advice above, in that most larger labels are now going "360," which means by nature and definition they must be into all of those things that you mentioned, and business principles and philosophy (even if it's to "know the enemy") will not change much in 5-10 (or 100) years, it's just the technology that is changing (and remember, these are the folks that had "new technology" and "distribution throughout the known universe" clauses in their contracts back in the 60's and 70's)...
Are the labels that are taking the "360 deal" approach actually acting as managers, booking agents, merch coordinators, publishers, etc., for these artists? Or, are they just taking a cut of the profits from those things? It seems to me that even most of the bigger name acts are still represented by top tier booking agents. You're probably not going to learn much about booking tours by interning at a record label. That's all I'm saying.

I disagree about whether or not business principles or philosophies will change based on the technology and evolving markets. They absolutely will. They have already. The "360 deal" is an example of how things are changing. Subscription services have already changed how many people legally "consume" music. Attitudes about "ownership" of music have already changed. The same thing is happening with software (I currently "rent" Adobe CS). And, sneaky contract language aside, labels aren't going to give you experience on the cutting edge of music distribution. They were late to the game and are still the biggest impediment to progress because they're obsessed with maintaining their (not the artists') obscenely large slice of the pie.

I think that the most valuable thing you could learn from major labels right now is how to use attorneys to try to rig the game in your favor, and how to ride the line between exploiting and alienating both your artists and your customers. I guess that kind of knowledge is useful to some people. But, if I was choosing where to jump in today, I'd jump in on the side that's fighting against that garbage.

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Post by Gregg Juke » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:19 pm

>>>>The "360 deal" is an example of how things are changing.<<<<

But that's what I mean-- "...the more things stay the same..." Motown, anyone?

++++Stuff about labels being bad++++

Yes, yes, and yes, I suppose, but that doesn't mean one wouldn't learn things that are good to know. Not talking ideology; talking usefulness of an internship.

****More stuff about "the right side" and "who is or isn't relevant"****

I'm just offering a different perspective, is all. I have no horse in the race, per se, and no dog or pony in the show. But for the record-- Leaving everything up to the tech people to be the saviors of music? I'm not so sure that's the right place to put your chips either. Again, I must cite Moses Avalon, just as one very recent, but prescient example:

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2lCwIA/ww ... gets-boot/

Anyway, our friend has found his nitch, so it's a moot argument until another day.

GJ

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Post by Gregg Juke » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:37 pm

>>>>The whole system is still sooooo "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". The internet hasn't democratized things nearly as much as we'd all love to believe.<<<<

PS-- Chris, this (above) is an awesome quote, and what I'm on about, most of the time. It really is "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." But democratization and access? Right now (I'm not necessarily convinced it's forever), that seems to be the purview of the consumer, not the artist, at least in terms of the pop music game...

GJ

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