What's the distinction between "metal" and "h

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:56 pm

Is there a way to decide if a piece of music is metal or hard rock that both Metal afficionados and lay people can agree on? I'm not an expert on all the sub-genres, but I think I'm talking about just straight up, old-school, "heavy metal." I'd give examples, but I'd be embarrassed if I named bands that weren't exactly considered "heavy metal."

Thanks,

PS I really hope this doesn't constitute trolling. This question has really been bugging me lately (my wife, apparently, doesn't think anything is metal.) But I know this could become practically an analog/digital, Windows/Mac, Ford/Chevy, Tube/Solid state kindof shouting match.

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:41 pm

There's not necessarily a clear distinction, especially with classic/heavy metal (as opposed to other metal sub-genres); the lineage is more or less the same, so it's not so easy to pick out specific things.

Classic metal vocals might tend to be more operatic than hard rock, guitar solos are possibly more shredding, and there might be less of an emphasis on groove. Lots of counterexamples to all of those, though!

Are there any marginal bands you were thinking about? Might be easier if there were something specific to talk about.

Nowadays, it seems like tough-guy alt rock and screamo are often conflated with metal.

Bro Shark · Post by **Bro Shark** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:53 pm

Lemme hear the song in question and I'll tell you.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:26 pm

dfuruta wrote: T

Classic metal vocals might tend to be more operatic than hard rock, guitar solos are possibly more shredding, and there might be less of an emphasis on groove. Lots of counterexamples to all of those, though!

+1

I also notice lotsa hair, leather, spandex, violent and possibly latent imagery as common.

Iron Maiden is metal, Iron Butterfly was not.

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:50 am

Thinking about this a bit more, I'm wondering if there's nothing I consider "hard rock," but rather, I lump it all in as metal. I'm really scared to name names. The bands we've been talking about are kindof obscure (some local, i.e. http://www.reverbnation.com/drunkonpower/songs), but might sometimes sound kindof guns and rosesie.

Van Halen, Guns and Roses, Animal Bag, Aerosmith. Honestly, in my head, I call these bands "groove rock." But that's not really a category other people use. Are those bands solidly in the metal category, or not for everyone. Or am I way confused. I know early RHCP is considered "funk," but seriously, what's not metal about it? The singing's not good enough? What about the Cult?

I always see Led Zep and Hendrix named as progenitors of metal. Are they considered metal still, with so much heavier, faster, more precise and less bluesy shit constituting metal these days?

I guess this is stupid. What good are genres anyway?

Scodiddly · Post by **Scodiddly** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:00 am

Van Halen, Aerosmith? Those types of bands really predate metal, so would be considered hard rock. "Metal" back in the early 80's would have been more like Judas Priest and Slayer, with maybe Ronnie James Dio sitting on the dividing line.

I dunno, a lot of it seems to be visuals too. Metal sort of morphed into hair metal around then and all the costumes took a distinct turn towards shiny/stretchy.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:00 am

hard rock=denim, stratocastor or les paul
heavy metal=spandex, flying v or warlock

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:20 am

Snarl 12/8 wrote:Van Halen, Guns and Roses, Animal Bag, Aerosmith. Honestly, in my head, I call these bands "groove rock." But that's not really a category other people use. Are those bands solidly in the metal category, or not for everyone. Or am I way confused. I know early RHCP is considered "funk," but seriously, what's not metal about it? The singing's not good enough? What about the Cult?

I always see Led Zep and Hendrix named as progenitors of metal. Are they considered metal still, with so much heavier, faster, more precise and less bluesy shit constituting metal these days?

I guess this is stupid. What good are genres anyway?

To me:
Van Halen - metal
Guns and Roses & Aerosmith & Animal Bag (not as familiar with them) - hard rock

But G&R might go either way.

Black Sabbath was THE progenitor of metal, more or less?many other bands around then doing heavy rock, but none had the same influence, and lots of metal bands still sound pretty much exactly like Sabbath.

Genres are useful to communicate a general idea of the sound, but it's no use getting too finicky about it

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:22 am

"Metal" might be called a state of mind.

Often bone-headed and aggressive, beer-drinking, misogynistic and always loud.

OK, I'm done baiting ...

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:11 am

ott0bot wrote:hard rock=denim, stratocastor or les paul
heavy metal=spandex, flying v or warlock

BOOM!

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:16 am

vvv wrote:"Metal" might be called a state of mind.

Often bone-headed and aggressive, beer-drinking, misogynistic and always loud.

OK, I'm done baiting ...

Isn't that also
hard rock
alt rock
modern country
hip hop
?

Bro Shark · Post by **Bro Shark** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:27 pm

Snarl 12/8 wrote:http://www.reverbnation.com/drunkonpower/songs

Not metal. Hard rock, I suppose, but... it's got this weird modern/alt thing going on that makes me think it's something else.

Van Halen, Guns and Roses, Animal Bag, Aerosmith.

None of those are metal either. If you had to pick one description, hard rock would probably work.

I know early RHCP is considered "funk," but seriously, what's not metal about it? The singing's not good enough? What about the Cult?

Early RHCP may have some metal influence but it lacks the purity of intent required to be metal. Metal is a narrow vision which generally excludes fun, being sexy, trying to appeal to women, having an overt sense of humor, etc.

The Cult are hard rock.

I always see Led Zep and Hendrix named as progenitors of metal. Are they considered metal still, with so much heavier, faster, more precise and less bluesy shit constituting metal these days?

No. You are correct that Zeppelin and Hendrix are huge influences on what became metal, but they never played metal. Both laid the seeds though.

I guess this is stupid. What good are genres anyway?

I totally agree, but people throw around the term "metal" too loosely. I'm glad you asked these questions because I find the topic interesting.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:23 pm

dfuruta wrote:
vvv wrote:"Metal" might be called a state of mind.

Often bone-headed and aggressive, beer-drinking, misogynistic and always loud.

OK, I'm done baiting ...
Isn't that also
hard rock
alt rock
modern country
hip hop
?

Sorta, but hard rock is just as often not bone-headed and misogynistic; alt. rock usually not bone-headed and aggressive and misogynistic; modern country not usually aggressive and misogynistic.

Might could be ya got me on some hip-hop, altho' there are many subdivisions there ...

YMMV, and I was just tryna kinda be funny.

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:04 pm

Bro Shark wrote:Early RHCP may have some metal influence but it lacks the purity of intent required to be metal. Metal is a narrow vision which generally excludes fun, being sexy, trying to appeal to women, having an overt sense of humor, etc.

Glam? Thrash?

I mean, black metal & doom are the modern metal subgenres I really care about, but "metal" covers a lot of ground...

vvv wrote:Sorta, but hard rock is just as often not bone-headed and misogynistic; alt. rock usually not bone-headed and aggressive and misogynistic; modern country not usually aggressive and misogynistic.

Might could be ya got me on some hip-hop, altho' there are many subdivisions there ...

YMMV, and I was just tryna kinda be funny.

Sure thing, but metal's a big universe, and there're a lot of different perspectives floating around. I just get pissy when people describe metal as such a narrow, stupid thing; a lot of it is pretty dumb, but that's true of any of these genres. Come on, indie rock?

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:57 pm

So when I said, "OK, I'm done baiting ...", it worked, eh?

I agree, and as is evident above, some stuff can be more than one thing.

I was just youtoobing the Rev. Horton Heat dueting with Lemmy -WTF is that?

Message Board

What's the distinction between "metal" and "h

What's the distinction between "metal" and "h

Who is online