singer can't sing

roscoenyc · Post by **roscoenyc** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:56 am

Since there is some "Producer" in your job description on this one...

One thing you could do is let the guy know that you like everything else he's done on the record s far and that you'd really like to hear the vocals up to the level he's done with the rest of the music.

Make him a "Karaoke Mix" and send him home to work on it.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:15 am

supafuzz, you really shouldn't get all butthurt so easily. no one's saying you're a jerk, no one's being passive aggressive. you asked for advice and you got it, some of it just wasn't what you wanted to hear. we're all grownups here, people don't need to sugarcoat their responses.

anyway, a story...which will not be helpful in any way whatsoever, but this thread reminded me of it....

a million years ago i recorded this band. we had a good time. a couple guys in the band had a side project, they asked me if they could come back with that project and do one song. i said sure. so a week later they show up...3 piece, guitar bass drums. they set up and start playing. and hey! this song is great! really cool post-rock kinda thing, sort of tranquil yet rocking at the same time. alright!

so they do a couple takes, we pick the best one, everything's going great. we just need to do the vox. i go set up a 4050, get the singer comfy, go back into the control room and hit record.

and through the monitors, over this lovely tranquil-yet-rocking post rock tune, come these vocals that sound like a really thin, super screechy, not particularly in tune ronnie james dio.

in all my years spent sitting in front of a pair of speakers, i have had some WTF moments, but this might've really been the winner. the singer sure hadn't *seemed* like a dio-esque screecher, the tune sure didn't call for that style of singing, i was just completely unprepared for all of this.

i mean...it's hard for me to find words to convey just how fucking CRAZY this dude's voice sounded.

but as his bandmates were sitting in the room with me, i had to keep my cool. he finished the first take and i said "i don't think that's the right mic for you" and gave him a 421. which did actually help a bit.

he did a few more takes, everyone was happy, they packed up and split.

if there's a moral to this story, which there isn't, it'd be "sometimes you should just press record and keep quiet."

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:29 am

In this situation, getting in the middle of band politics is a horribly bad idea. And, I think that suggesting the "Facebook poll" was a huge mistake. The chances of the band blowing up and making your career are pretty slim, regardless of who sings. But, the chances of ruining your reputation because some stunt that you suggested ended up breaking up a band are much better.

Even if you were hired to produce, the person who hired you is the person that you need to make happy. If he wants to sing his own songs, then your job as producer is to figure out how to make the best of that situation.

chorga1 · Post by **chorga1** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:34 pm

morespaceecho ftw!

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:40 pm

supafuzz wrote:
Bro Shark wrote:We still haven't heard the answer of whether the OP was hired to Produce, or Engineer.
I thought I said earlier......I'm engineering overdubs mixing and giving some production advice and vocals are in that category. The singer is asking me to help produce the vocal recording. I understand the difference between strictly engineering and producing....
And I've already listened to all the above mentioned artists for many years and if this guy could sing even remotely closely to any one of them there would be no issue.
In this case it's just weak singing and it sounds bad as the music and his guitar playing is really great.

so now what can you tell me? How do you tell someone they need another year of intense practise and lessons to get to where thye can sing with tone and power.

No. Here is your post :

what do you do in the situation where the singer should not be singing?
Never took lessons, smokes cigarettes, is over weight and unhealthy..but wrote the songs and doesn't want anyone else to sing them.

Yes I underrstand I can just keep taking the money [when he has it which is sporatic] But I like this guy and have already had a major conversation that his backup singer who has an amazing voice should sing all the songs.

The guy in question is a great guitar player and i think he should just stick to that...but ego ego ego is in the way.

I did come up with the idea that she sings one and he sings one and put it on facebook and just invite their friends to vote.....I already know what the outcome of that will be let's just hope he takes heed.

thanks
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. where perfection is not an accident but we keep trying.
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio

now in glorious HD2

No wonder there is pissiness and confusion. You did not say until post #3 that you were hired to produce a song. I still say you end up doing what the artist wants.

Cheers

ott0bot wrote:
sorry supafuzz, you come across like the jerk here. especially the out of shape comments.

you don't know me...and you have no right to call me a jerk....
People who know me know that i'm passionate about what I do and I really care about the clients and know that I'm the polar opposite of a jerk
so I'm not sure why you think you have the right to call me names.

If you're fat and out of shape and smoke it FUCKS UP YOUR VOICE AND BREATH CONTROL. Fact!!

Anyway I forgot to post that I've been hird as producer after the song was written and recorded and we're re recording vocals and guitars and fixing the super over compressed drums etc.

I could give a shit about controlling every little thing and always leave the client an out to have things exactly how they want it....musch less stress for me and they seem to keep coming back.

Jesus if I wanted to fight I would get married again! I'm regretting starting this thread.
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. where perfection is not an accident but we keep trying.
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio

now in glorious HD2

So, indeed, giving correct and timely information is always good for everyone.

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:56 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:and through the monitors, over this lovely tranquil-yet-rocking post rock tune, come these vocals that sound like a really thin, super screechy, not particularly in tune ronnie james dio.

This sounds absolutely amazing.

Bro Shark · Post by **Bro Shark** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:58 pm

I doubt OP is bothering with this thread anymore.

I think it's an important point anyway though. The only situation I can think of where a Producer might have that kind of power is when they've been hired specifically by a label (back in the old days) to corral the artist into delivering some kind of marketable product, independent of, or more importantly than the artist's vision. I don't really imagine that world exists anymore, and when the artist is the one paying the bill, I can't imagine they'd want to actually pay a Producer/Engineer to go over their own head. Offer advice, sure. But not call the shots. Nowadays bands/artists save up their own dough and they are the ultimate voice in the final vision... and I think that's awesome and the way things should be. Unless you're looking for some kind of Top 40 hit, but that's a whole other game.

Osumosan · Post by **Osumosan** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:29 pm

Producers are not just for cranking out top 40. Ideally, they will bring out the best of an artist, or show them different roads they might want to take. Art is not an absolute; an artist's vision is not necessarily set in stone. There's a whole spectrum between "artistic freedom" and Phil Spector with a gun to your head.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:03 pm

dfuruta wrote:This sounds absolutely amazing.

oh man....i'm dying laughing.

i know i have a copy of it here somewhere. but it would take me all day to find it, and my days are already filled up writing stupid shit on messageboards.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:47 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
dfuruta wrote:This sounds absolutely amazing.
oh man....i'm dying laughing.

i know i have a copy of it here somewhere. but it would take me all day to find it, and my days are already filled up writing stupid shit on messageboards.

yes please. we will miss your posts, but i think it's worth the sacrifice.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:38 pm

even if i could find it i wouldn't post it. he was a really nice guy.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:59 am

>>>>MoreSpace's funny tale<<<<

I have so many of those stories, mostly from working as a studio musician/sideman back in the day, but also from sessions I've produced or worked-on in other ways and one that wasn't from me, but my current studio partner:

If I played this material for you, you would literally laugh (or stare in blank catatonic amazement, as I did) for days. This particular guy's "artistic vision" fell somewhere between Tiny Tim, the "She Bangs" guy, and some warped version of David Byrne and Leonard Cohen on hallucinogens (I'm being kind here, btw). He came to my friend with already recorded/"produced" pieces, and he wanted him to master the tracks for him, and archive them on the special "Gold CD's, because they last 100 years or more." This guy's over-blown estimation of the importance of his "song-writing" and "artistic statement" were a wonder to behold. To call the songs "outsider" material would be to under-estimate their own collosal outsiderness...

What did Bruce do? He held his tongue, took the money, and mastered the tracks. Because sometimes, that's what you do.

GJ

dfuruta · Post by **dfuruta** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:25 am

The most unique (and maybe my favorite) musician I ever worked with is a friend, this guy. The first time I heard him play I couldn't believe it. Totally wonderful, like he's halfway between Bob Dylan and Jandek.

This is all only tangentially related to the OP, but there are so many people out there doing the same things?isn't it better to have someone playing music in their own way, even if it's really off?

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:15 am

dfuruta wrote:The most unique (and maybe my favorite) musician I ever worked with is a friend, this guy.

Ha! Sounds like a drunk and tripping Dave Pirner.

Which is kinda cool ...

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:13 pm

dfuruta wrote:The most unique (and maybe my favorite) musician I ever worked with is a friend, this guy. The first time I heard him play I couldn't believe it. Totally wonderful, like he's halfway between Bob Dylan and Jandek.

This guy should submit his music to Weirdsville Radio (clicky). They have some pretty wild music on there and he would fit right in. Cool stuff! Recording sounded good too man.

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