The impact of college radio in 2013?

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Gregg Juke
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Post by Gregg Juke » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:31 pm

>>>>They're especially rare if you go about it all wrong and don't recognize that there are different approaches that work better depending on your goals and your definition of success.<<<<


EXACTLY!!!! Couldn't agree more.
And those are the deep questions that really define the Who, What, When, Where, and How of what you'll do or not do; deep questions like "What are we really doing?" and "How will we define success?" Those are the questions that people in bands almost never ask until they are somewhat close to some kind of possible success, and then paperwork (various contracts) is involved, differing definitions and opinions are exposed, and bands implode (or explode-- in a bad way)

++++I just assume that most bands that consider themselves "indie" wouldn't have much interest in playing gigs in front of audiences who don't care, for some "organization", just because the better gigs are rare or more difficult to come by.++++

Right, so again, assumptions and definitions. We all make/have them, but it's rare that they/we agree.

For instance:

####Stuff about "lame potshots####

See what I mean. Now you're making assumptions. I was responding to things I read in the thread as a whole, including some of the ideas that you presented. Sorry if you were offended; seriously no lame potshots intended. But Chris, c'mon man. I've been around here for a bit now; anyone that has has a pretty good idea of where you stand on traditional music business models. Am I wrong or making unqualified assumptions? I think not-- the public record here at the TOMB supports my understanding of your total commitment to DIY. Which is AWESOME ( I was into "DIY" before they called it DIY). But let's not miss the forest for the trees.

There are some people that are so punk and DIY they'd never sign a deal under any circumstances. And that's great for them if they have that aesthetic.

There are those who pine for the old corporate model and refuse to see that change has come, like it or not.

I think of myself as a pragmatist that never liked the old model that much, but sees a lot about what's happening now as even less desireable in a lot of ways...

But I could be wrong, because our view of ourselves is often flawed, aye?

@@@@Most of the stuff that you posted that I deleted is stuff that I just agree with. We really don't disagree about much on this subject. In fact, if you hadn't made the assumption about me being "DIY", I may not have even responded.@@@@

Right, because once you've been around the block in this "business," you really know where most of the money resides, and where it's likely to stay. We're part of the initiated elite; we've been burned enough to understand who holds the branding iron.

But I disagree with your assumption that I made an assumption (at least an unfounded one-- your position has been stated plainly on these boards many, many times). And I didn't mean to push any hot-buttons Chris-- I really respect what you've done and what you're trying to do with your music, your studio, and your label. Without guys like you, the music business that we all love to hate that we love would never exist at all; it's the independent entrepreneurs that have always made this thing go, and someday, the system will correct itself and that time will come again (when independents rule). But I think corporations have their place; mostly with resources that most of us don't have access to, and never will without accessing some of theirs.

GJ
Gregg Juke
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chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:50 pm

I fully support anyone who wants to make a go of it in DIY fashion. But, I also fully recognize what managers, booking agents, publicists, etc., bring to the table. My band has done a PR campaign. My band has signed a contract with a label. My band NEEDS a good booking agent!

My overriding philosophy, if there is one, is NOT do it yourself. It's do it utilizing the smallest "machine" that you need to effectively promote your music. That doesn't mean do it yourself. I'm absolutely sick of booking tours. I understand the value of trusting things to others. I also understand that at a certain point, it becomes not only desirable, but necessary, to trust professionals to help you out.

There's a lot to be proud of when you achieve some success via DIY. But, there's even more to be proud of when you achieve enough success that you legitimately need help.

I'm invested in the machine. I'm part of it. But, I'm super suspicious of any type of pay-to-play situation, and I'm especially suspicious of their usefulness as arbiters of taste. If anyone who ponies up the cash can become a "member" and start submitting for gigs, that kind of diminishes the prestige. I'd rather handle my PR via companies that choose which bands to work with before taking money from them.

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Gregg Juke
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Post by Gregg Juke » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:09 pm

Well said. Back in the day, nobody took any money from the musicians (at least until they actually made some!); the idea was that those with finances found those that were worthy to sink said finances into, so that all could make some money from the investment.

While there are lots of examples of how that didn't always (ok, mostly) work, I too am wary of the pay-to-play schemes. But I guess that's here to stay. And in some ways, I suppose everybody is entitled to make what they can; we all charge, or at least hope to charge for our professional music/production services. But I think it's incumbent on people to be honest in what they are really able to do for a paying client, and I believe it's this that sets the scammers apart from the legit businesses. So to bring it back to the OP, really vet the companies you are looking to work with; they may be interviewing/researching you to see if you are a "fit" for their company; you do the same right back. Even a history in the business, expensive fancy offices and a deep client list don't mean they'll be right for you, and you should at least get two or three real references (not quotes from a website or something, but actually by talking with current and former clients).

I hope it all works out! Much success...

GJ
Gregg Juke
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"He's about to learn the most important lesson in the music business-- 'Never trust people in the music business.' "

witchfeet
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Post by witchfeet » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:45 pm

I think the thing is, now that traditional distribution channels are basically no longer needed for fans to access product, labels are no longer needed by working bands and artists, except to act basically as banks to bands who can't afford recording, promo, pressing, merch etc. on their own. Now, don't get me wrong, big time pop acts are still going to need those huge major market radio promo and tour budgets to break because that's what it calls for. But your average everyday musician can really do this without labels these days IMO. There are of course some indie labels that come with "cred" and instant recognition perks, say Sub Pop, Merge, Matador, etc., but generally speaking, if you've got the goods talent wise, you're the right "style" of band, the patience, the work ethic, and the funding to go at it on your own, I think it can be done. The cool thing is, we normal people now have access to the network previously unavailable to us due to strongholds on distribution. That's my 2 cents anyways. :)

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Post by elbows » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:29 pm

Just reminded me of my short visit this past April to my old college and its radio station - at which I had spent a lot of my time as a student. It was sad to see that they had moved the entire (physical) library - CDs, vinyl, cassettes - to cardboard boxes in the hallway by the entrance with a Sharpie-scrawled "FREE" sign above. As I dug, I noticed the depth was chronological - newest releases on top. They'd been simply tossing all the promos and pre-releases with the RIYL labels that I used to crave into these boxes as they came in. On top of what was the existing library. I asked one of the students who was walking around what the deal was. He said they'd only been taking and broadcasting digital submissions, and told me that a couple of directors had digitized some of the old library.

Also, no one listens.

Sad.

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Gregg Juke
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Post by Gregg Juke » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:43 pm

At the last "music biz" conference I went to several years back, I was surprised by the transition to not only digital submissions, but also submission of website and EPK links to radio station music directors, after so many years of them saying "Don't send us Mp3's or website links."

In my nitch genre, radio people still seem to expect CD's, but the Roots Report is involved with something called "Radio Submit," which is an all digital submission service. So yeah, even there, things are changing slowly...

GJ
Gregg Juke
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witchfeet
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Post by witchfeet » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:20 am

Yeah, I think a lot want digital, although I do have to send the promo company 250 CDs w/ a spine, so I guess a lot still like CDs. I believe they submit to around 400 stations, so I guess well over 50% still use CDs and traditional one-sheets. I'm sure that will change in the not so distant future.

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