natural light vs soundproofing

[joninc]

i have worked in windowless basements and garages for 12 years and am ready for some daylight

i am wondering how you guys who have windows to the outside world in your studios were able to do so and still be quite soundproofed.

(i understand the basics of isolation with double walls etc... )

i am also interested in creative alternatives for bringing in natural light - glass blocks? btw i don't think skylights will work in my space.

[Snarl 12/8]

There's stuff about this in the Rod Gervais book. Basically, as always, it comes down to mass, avoiding resonance, sealing and decoupling.

That said, I had pretty good results by adding double pane windows to the inside of my basement windows. Getting 3 layers in all. I used rubber gaskety type stuff between the double pane and the existing window sash. They were pretty small windows and absolute silence outside wasn't paramount.

If I had it to do over again. (which, hopefully, I will) I'd use 2 panes of the thickest glass I could get. In fact, I'd try to get two different thicknesses so they resonated at different frequencies. I plan on doing a "room within a room" thing, or at least staggered studs and resilient channel. My plan is two have double paned glass coupled to the exterior wall and then have another double layered window coupled to the interior, drywall, wall. I have an amazing view to the south, so I want pretty big windows, actually.

edit: you gotta ask yourself, what's your target STC and can you afford it.

[JWL]

If I had it to do over again. (which, hopefully, I will) I'd use 2 panes of the thickest glass I could get. In fact, I'd try to get two different thicknesses so they resonated at different frequencies.

I agree with everything in Snarl's post except the bit about 2 different thicknesses. I'd rather have 2 thicker panes (even if they are the same thickness) than 1 thick and 1 thinner. Mass is mass, for the most part.

[Snarl 12/8]

I agree with everything in Snarl's post except the bit about 2 different thicknesses. I'd rather have 2 thicker panes (even if they are the same thickness) than 1 thick and 1 thinner. Mass is mass, for the most part.

I'd defer to JWL, if I were me.

[The Scum]

Natural light is wonderful.

Assuming that we can solve the problem of putting a window between the studio and control room, I think it only follows that we should be able to build windows to the outside, using similar techniques.

[norton]

We did some lab tests and found that a limp sheet of clear plastic did improve window assembly stc.

I haven't done any looking into whether this concept made it into production or not. But the kicker is always the window jamb. Window jambs are leaky and weak period.

You can make a much better window assembly yourself. Use raw laminated glass, and build your own massive jambs and stops around the window. If it's an exterior window, use extruded vinyl. If it's a window on an interior wall with a doubled up exterior window, then go nuts with as much mass as is practical.

The glass will still be your weak point... But. It'll be way better than an off the shelf window assembly.

[llmonty]

i used clerestory windows in my last place. absolutely loved them. great light (natural, non-direct), provided a great panorama, and had basic security function - they were up high, small, and largely fixed.

what i learned (similar to others):
-by far, most bang for buck is laminated, DIY assemblies. 3/4" was surprisingly inexpensive.
-decoupling still applies
-seams are your weak point, but use heavy stops/jambs/trim, neoprene, etc.
-just about impossible to make them operable. i had 2 casement windows with laminate glass. great for air (space was often not recording loud music, or any music at all), but even with heavy and double gasketed plugs, was still a weak spot.
-my wall assembly was not ideal in that it was a single, coupled wall, though beefed up (2x6", 2 layers 5/8" drywall, gg, caulked, hardie board). The fixed windows, to my ears and db measurement were largely in line with the wall.

[floid]

I put south facing clerestory windows in my studio as well, it really brings a nice feel to the room. the glare can be an lcd-screen killer at certain times of the day tho - all the more reason for me to shun my digital stuff I guess
they don't really make much difference in my soundproofing, tho I did do my best to overbuild them...

[ott0bot]

I'm building out my garage into a guesthouse/studio space. Per code it has to have 8% natural light. After much research I settled on glass block windows in a clerestory position. they are fairly sound proof, and you line the edges with rubber cording and seal them. they provide nice refracted light. for security, it's one less entry point, plus you can't see in the space clearly either.

I can always position a hinge for a 703 panel above them if it creates any issues when mixing...but I'm pretty sure it'll be ok based on the position being fairly neutral as far as reflected sound.

[jhbrandt]

Done it many times. We put a skylight in the tracking room of one our Amsterdam studio builds.

Thick, heavy, laminated glass on the exterior partition AND the interior partition. - Separated by as much space as you can afford.

Cheers,
John

[roscoenyc]

In NYC I've had fairly good luck by just putting 2nd set of thermopane windows in the inside of the opening. There's almost always room (on the inside). It looks stock from the street and you can still open the window(s) if you want to .

[joninc]

We are planning on ordering 4 laminated windows to have 2 windows looking out from the MAIN ROOM (combination tracking/mixing space approx 700 sq feet) to the exterior of the building (forest).

I have a good friend doing a lot of the work on the project and he gets contractor rates on most materials and is passing the savings on to me. A lot window manufacturing companies are based out here so we'll be going with pre-made windows for all the exterior. These need to be able to be opened. (We may try to make out own for the windows between the booths and the live room)

I have a hard time translating window glass thicknesses and construction into relative mass - do these sound sufficient to come close to the wall thickness of approx 60 STC? (assuming the jambs are sealed and assembled tightly)

These windows are 4x4 in size and have 6mm laminated glass > 3/8 air gap (argon filled) > 4 mm glass and one in each wall.

There would be 2 for each view to the outside - 1 on the inner edge of a 2x6 wall (decoupled) and 1 on the outer 2x4 wall. There would be approx 7 inches of air space between the 2 sets of windows.

[joninc]

these are vinyl windows btw

[joninc]

ok - i've been hunting around and got some feedback that these windows aren't really thick enough to do as much isolation (and as at low a frequency) as my walls and therefore would become the weak spots. I was recommended to get about double the thickness to approach the same mass as my walls.

We've made some calls and the cost of getting windows made with this type of density is more than 4x the cost and just way beyond the budget. $1200- $1500 each approx.

In speaking with a guy I know who worked closely with a renowned studio designer, his recommendation was really to build some dense panels to mount around the windows on the interior walls for the days when I am doing some really loud stuff (mostly drums) - or where there is noticeable amounts of noise outside (like home construction an . Right now that concept is feeling like a compromise that I can live with. I get daylight most of the time but a few days a month or whatever, I just put up the panels.

Is this a stupid idea? I know it's not the same as having the same mass built in like the window but I think it could reduce enough volume so as to keep neighbors happy etc...

Has anyone else done something like this?

I am trying my best to balance out:
a) the reality of my small budget
b) the fact that I am living in a more remote place
and don't need to be dead quiet all the time but - I can't make as much
noise as I want and do have some neighbours around.
c) the need for some natural light after 12 years in the basement and garage

[roscoenyc]

If you do a real good job of installing the 2 sets of pre-made windows w the space you were talking about (really sealing the inside of the opening on the edges) I bet you'd be surprised at the result considering your location.

A lot less money and it'll look good and you'll be able to open the windows.