Hi everyone, I'm new to the message board here.
Having spent the last 10 years or so doing absolutely everything in the box, I have now decided to by an analogue console, outboard equipment and tape recorder... just to try doing a bit something different really.
Anyway, my question is this:
This is completely hypothetical but, say I have 16 tracks recorded down to tape, I am now at the mix down stage, I only have one outboard compressor available but I want to apply compression to all of the tracks but all with completely different compressor settings. Would I have to apply the compressor one track at a time and bounce down each individual compressed track back to tape?
I hope that made sense.
I appreciate your help
New to the analogue world - Mixdown question
If you have all 16 tracks full, what would you record back to?
I'm sure in a pinch, the occasional tape track>compressor>tape track works, but if you start doing that all over the place, you'll notice your noise floor going through the roof because the compressor brings up tape hiss when used post tape, and then you're adding more because of the new track. Different machines will be noisier than others.
Of course it's quite common to use compressors when mixing via the inserts on the console, or routed from a buss send, then routed back to another channel for parallel compression with the original signal, or even an aux send. Or between the recorder and the console.
There's a million ways to do it, but you'll find that the more you compress on the way to tape, the more you'll avoid elevating tape hiss. All that said, tape hiss usually doesn't bother me personally. I kind of like it. But there is a point where there's too much even for me.
Good news is, though, you'll find that you need less compression all around when recording to tape. Lots of times you can get away with just mic>preamp>tape. Rhythm guitars being one example.
BTW, welcome!
I'm sure in a pinch, the occasional tape track>compressor>tape track works, but if you start doing that all over the place, you'll notice your noise floor going through the roof because the compressor brings up tape hiss when used post tape, and then you're adding more because of the new track. Different machines will be noisier than others.
Of course it's quite common to use compressors when mixing via the inserts on the console, or routed from a buss send, then routed back to another channel for parallel compression with the original signal, or even an aux send. Or between the recorder and the console.
There's a million ways to do it, but you'll find that the more you compress on the way to tape, the more you'll avoid elevating tape hiss. All that said, tape hiss usually doesn't bother me personally. I kind of like it. But there is a point where there's too much even for me.
Good news is, though, you'll find that you need less compression all around when recording to tape. Lots of times you can get away with just mic>preamp>tape. Rhythm guitars being one example.
BTW, welcome!
Stilgar, we've got wormsign the likes of which God has never seen!
Thank you for your response, I appreciate it.
Good point about having 16 tracks full, I didn't really think that one through!
Like I said, it was just hypothetical. I was actually expecting someone to respond with "why would you want compression on all of the tracks?". I was only using compression as an example, just in case anyone else is wondering!
Oh and thanks for the welcome!
Good point about having 16 tracks full, I didn't really think that one through!
Like I said, it was just hypothetical. I was actually expecting someone to respond with "why would you want compression on all of the tracks?". I was only using compression as an example, just in case anyone else is wondering!
Oh and thanks for the welcome!
Last edited by DaveAHCW on Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Nick Sevilla
- on a wing and a prayer
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- Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
- Contact:
Hi Dave,
Welcome to the TapeOp Forum!
It's good to read someone is going "analog" for mixing.
To answer your question, when you only have one compressor, it is best to use it
on only the most dynamic instrument, which will need the compression the most.
The rest, will be fader moves. Hopefully your console has computerized automation.
If not, since you are on 16 tracks, that makes for 4 hands, so you and a friend could do the mixes together, and map out what each of your duties will be.
Just like the Old Times!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tzK4ycaWYA
Welcome to the TapeOp Forum!
It's good to read someone is going "analog" for mixing.
To answer your question, when you only have one compressor, it is best to use it
on only the most dynamic instrument, which will need the compression the most.
The rest, will be fader moves. Hopefully your console has computerized automation.
If not, since you are on 16 tracks, that makes for 4 hands, so you and a friend could do the mixes together, and map out what each of your duties will be.
Just like the Old Times!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tzK4ycaWYA
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
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Nick Sevilla
- on a wing and a prayer
- Posts: 5572
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
- Contact:
Here is a better bit of mixing with no automation.
BTW Tommy invented the linear fader. For this purpose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtlZdoi_usM
BTW Tommy invented the linear fader. For this purpose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtlZdoi_usM
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
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joninc
- dead but not forgotten
- Posts: 2100
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it's interesting - i have read interviews with some mix engineers whom i admire who are now 100% ITB after coming up in big pro studios with all the fancy outboard gear and one thing they often seem to mention is that they love the fact that they can have so many different choices of compressors/eqs and multiple instances of any of them.
one thing you might want to try and recording the whole thing analog - it really changes the process and puts more pressure on the performances (a good thing IMO) but then dump to digital for mixing.
that way you get the sound of tape (which many love for drums and guitars) but the flexibility and recall of ITB for mixing.
just an idea. have fun!
one thing you might want to try and recording the whole thing analog - it really changes the process and puts more pressure on the performances (a good thing IMO) but then dump to digital for mixing.
that way you get the sound of tape (which many love for drums and guitars) but the flexibility and recall of ITB for mixing.
just an idea. have fun!
the new rules : there are no rules
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A.David.MacKinnon
- ears didn't survive the freeze
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I strongly encourage everyone who can to make a few records 100% on tape. In the same way that tracking to tape makes the players rise to the occasion, mixing from tape to tape makes the engineer and producer rise to the occasion too. When you have no automation and no way to easily 100% recall things every mix becomes a performance. At the same time the limitations of gear (or your lack of gear) and the medium make you think of creative ways to work around the problems.
- If a mix has too many moves to get through easily try mixing in sections and editing the sections together.
- If you have 1 track left and backing vocals, a solo and some percussion tracks left to do record them all onto the one remaining track. If none of the parts overlap you can mult that track to a few faders and have different levels, panning and eqs ready to go for each part. Just unmute the appropriate fader when that part comes along.
- out of tracks but still need to record a solo? Track it to a separate recorder, cue it up and then fly it in during mixdown. I did this on a few records. As long as the part isn't too long and you get your timing right it'll stay in synch.
- Don't be afraid to break out the razor blade and edit the two track mix or even the master tape.
- If a mix has too many moves to get through easily try mixing in sections and editing the sections together.
- If you have 1 track left and backing vocals, a solo and some percussion tracks left to do record them all onto the one remaining track. If none of the parts overlap you can mult that track to a few faders and have different levels, panning and eqs ready to go for each part. Just unmute the appropriate fader when that part comes along.
- out of tracks but still need to record a solo? Track it to a separate recorder, cue it up and then fly it in during mixdown. I did this on a few records. As long as the part isn't too long and you get your timing right it'll stay in synch.
- Don't be afraid to break out the razor blade and edit the two track mix or even the master tape.
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