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Fighting Discouragement
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WillMorgan
gimme a little kick & snare


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 95
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

drumsound wrote:
Its a lack of public interest in music of quality that makes me question my role as cog in this particular machine.


That sounds like a marketing problem!!

Full time pro studios have thinned out, amateur recordists abound... I assume that is where the perceived lack of interest is?

People like me _think_ they can do it all at home, but we really can't... the pro recording industry was and still is highly specialized for darn good reasons. There are not enough days in my life that I can take my one hour of creative time a night and at most 12 on weekends to practice parts, record them, mix them, master 'em and market 'em.

So, how to break the spell amongst the glut of people who want to record at home but don't do it right? Maybe a marketing campaign built around radical truth?

"You won't even begin to make your money back, but you will have recorded a hell of a great record if you spend $5K with me."

And meanwhile, get into education. I paid for pros for my one record and the learning was invaluable, now I'm going back into the basement to see what I can do alone with that knowledge whilst I nurse my red ink.
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ubertar
cryogenically thawing


Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 3668
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

"Music of quality" and "well-recorded music" are two entirely different things. I guess you could argue there's a general lack of public interest in either.

A great recording of great music is ideal, but I'd strongly prefer a shitty recording of great music to a great recording of shitty music. I'd prefer silence to the latter.
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vvv
zen recordist


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7977
Location: Chi

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

I agree, which is why I compromise, making shitty recordings of shite music what doesn't get heard anyway, kinda like a bear's fart when he gets wood. Twisted Evil
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totah
audio school


Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

lyman wrote:
I think you should evaluate what your goals are. If you're trying to "make it" in the music business and you feel that your product is not up to snuff, then that's one thing. If you're just making music for your own enjoyment then who cares how it stacks up against what else is out there. If you enjoy the process then have at it. Just my opinion.


I was just going through a momentary bout of discouragement, which I'm sure we all face sometimes. I'm only trying to "make it" in the sense that I want to provide an affordable (free) recording experience for local bands. There's a severe lack of support for art (especially music) in my community and my goal in life is to help that.
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MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 6152

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

that is a very worthy goal, but how are you gonna feed yourself and pay bills if you're recording for free? even if you are fortunate enough to have a big trust fund, i'd say you should still charge something....your time and experience are worth something, and if you don't value it no one else will either.
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joninc
carpal tunnel


Joined: 09 Jun 2003
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Location: canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
if you don't value it no one else will either.


that is very true and good advice.
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totah
audio school


Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
that is a very worthy goal, but how are you gonna feed yourself and pay bills if you're recording for free? even if you are fortunate enough to have a big trust fund, i'd say you should still charge something....your time and experience are worth something, and if you don't value it no one else will either.


Frankly, this is completely off topic, but I'll indulge you since I'm admittedly being pretty vague in my responses and you're assuming a lot about me. I have a full-time job in IT and I'm very good at it. I do value my work and I do get paid very well for what I do. When it comes to music, I've recorded my own for years with very primitive equipment. Which was fine for my(lo-fi) standards, but I now have an interest in recording other people's music and want to provide high(er) quality recordings.

When it comes to making money in music, I live in a small town - There is literally one venue for bands to play here, which is a skeevy bar run by scumbags. Also, due to the low population, there wouldn't be enough clients here to sustain self-employment in recording. I'd have to move somewhere else (which I plan on doing anyway) to make full-time recording a possibility.

I'm just starting to get into professional(compared to the shit I've been using for 10 years) gear. So for a while, I'm going to be in the learning phase all over again. During this phase, I'm going to be practicing/re-learning my equipment with mostly young people. The way I plan on working with them is "pay me what you can afford". If that means a six-pack, that's cool with me. If I meet bands that can afford to pay more, I'll charge them. I wish there was someone around to record my band when I was young, playing in this town and I want to give that to my community.

Long story short, I work hard for what I have. I can afford to record music for little to no money. I do this purely for fun and the love of music. I'm not a trust-fund baby (although there are days I wish I was).
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Gregg Juke
ghost haunting audio students


Joined: 12 Jun 2010
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Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

Unintentional double-post deleted...

GJ
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Gregg Juke
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"He's about to learn the most important lesson in the music business-- 'Never trust people in the music business.' "


Last edited by Gregg Juke on Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gregg Juke
ghost haunting audio students


Joined: 12 Jun 2010
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Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

Well, perhaps MSE assumed you'd be needing to eat (from your audio/musical endeavors), but perhaps he was also raising-consciousness that others need to eat from their audio/musical endeavors. Sometimes we come into the field with the best of intentions, but we can actually muddy the waters for everybody by offering a "free service" in an already crowded marketplace (and, by "marketplace," I mean, lots of people offering "free services," because everyone and their grandmother have a Pro Tools rig). Just something to be aware of-- competition is fine (and you already mentioned there probably isn't much/any where you're from), but being part of the continual under-cutting of professionals is not as cool, imho...

Also, when folks mention that "people won't value your services if you don't" (i.e. giving it away for free), they are correct. I'll give you one pertinent example. Years ago a friend of mine and his business partner started a vinyl-oriented record company. They offered a number of local groups contracts; they had very fair agreements, and fronted the recording, pressing, and promotion costs. They were having trouble getting people to even show-up for scheduled meetings to finalize paperwork; it wasn't important to them and could be attended to "later," because these guys were doing all of the work and were basically "giving it away for free to help the local music scene." Just a thought, not trying to shoot down the dream. But consider charging a little something, if only for upkeep on your set-up and the electricity needed to run it, or to make future improvements.

GJ
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Gregg Juke
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"He's about to learn the most important lesson in the music business-- 'Never trust people in the music business.' "
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totah
audio school


Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

How am I ever gonna edit takes with all this money in my eyes?
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vvv
zen recordist


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7977
Location: Chi

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

I quit my last band, but agreed to complete our last album, if only because I think it's pretty good and, ahem, well-produced.

I'm being driven crazy with all of the last-minute adjustments they have requested, and which, of course, are being done on my time.

They asked that I do their next album (they have the songs already written) and I said, "sure", but I am definitely charging 'em something for that one, if only to stop the nit-picking on the mixes (which also happened last album.)
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floid
re-cappin' neve


Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Location: in exile

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

some things i have found to be equally true of carpentry and recording music:

every favor you do for the client creates the expectation of two more.

quality tools and knowledge of their proper use are what set professionals apart from weekend warriors.

rates will influence the types of projects that come your way.
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vvv
zen recordist


Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Chi

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

My prob there is, my day job is hourly, there's no way I can bill for music production what I bill in my day job, I can't even begin to think about making money as a recordist, I can't afford to, I'm not good enuff/connected enuff to do so steadily.

I want to figure a rate that's high enough to prohibit wasting my time, but low enough that I can have some fun recording guys who won't spend for a pro studio anyway, just want to document their basement bands a little better than they can themselves.
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Gregg Juke
ghost haunting audio students


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

Start with totah's $40 eye-cash as seed money. He won't mind if you take it; it's obstructing his view anyway... Rolling Eyes Wink

GJ
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Gregg Juke
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"He's about to learn the most important lesson in the music business-- 'Never trust people in the music business.' "
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MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 6152

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Fighting Discouragement Reply with quote

floid wrote:
some things i have found to be equally true of carpentry and recording music


what i have found is that i swear 1000% less when recording music.

floid wrote:
quality tools and knowledge of their proper use are what set professionals apart from weekend warriors.


the quality of the finished product too.

do you do carpentry for a living? i doff my cap. i've done enough diy carpentry to really appreciate the professionals.

totah wrote:
I'm just starting to get into professional(compared to the shit I've been using for 10 years) gear. So for a while, I'm going to be in the learning phase all over again. During this phase, I'm going to be practicing/re-learning my equipment with mostly young people.


all good!
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