Is my Tascam TSR-8 calibrated for GP9?

Thaumatropemind · Post by **Thaumatropemind** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:27 am

Excuse my use of non-technical terms like "hotter", my technical vocabulary is limited but growing slowly.
I've read in other posts that calibrating a Tascam TSR-8 for Quantegy GP9 is an undesirable option for several reasons - including extra head wear caused by the heavier tape and the TSR-8 head's track spacing not being able to cope with the hotter (bias) signal - but I wonder if my machine may have been set up for GP9.
I'll explain:
When I bought the machine it came with two boxes of used GP9 - the boxes and reels are labelled GP9, the tape does seem heavier (thicker) than what I used to use on my now dead Otari machine and I see no reason to think the guy I bought the machine from would try to pass of some other tape as GP9.
The machine was originally housed in a small commercial recording studio that has since closed.
I did some test recordings noting the input levels and on playback all channels are dead-on or within an hairs breadth (in LED terms) of the input level signal - which if I'm not wrong suggests the bias calibration is pretty good.
If, as I suspect, the tapes I have are Quantegy GP9, is that, in terms of the prospective life of the machine, a bad thing?
Should I have it recalibrated to the factory settings and buy RMGI SM911?
Apart from some head wear the machine seems to be in very good condition considering its age, the recordings I've made so far are very pleasing to my not-too-fussy ears.
By way of explanation, I'm not particularly looking for the fabled "tape warmth". It's just that after fiddling around with computer based systems for some years I thought I'd have a go at the way I learned to record when the bug first hit me ('77 or thereabouts) and I find that notwithstanding the limitations of the 8-track "prosumer" format, the tape workflow agrees with me. I think mainly because I have less options. I get way more done with less options.
Any and all thoughts/advice most welcome.

Oh, and seeing as I'm new here, my name is Peter.
Glad to meet you all.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:18 am

Sure seems like it to me.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about excessive wear unless I was planning to put the thing into constant, heavy use. My suspicion is that "they" are way too cautious for "their own" good. I've run 499 and 996 on my TSR8 on and off and nobody's died or anything... but then my deck has yet to approach regular use (let alone heavy) since I've owned it. And if I'm wrong, it's not my deck that's going to suffer. So YMMV.

Is it even possible to set a TSR-8 hot enough to run +9 (or whatever)? I was under the impression that they wouldn't really adjust that hot. You might try some 456 or SM-911 and see how it sounds.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:21 am

Some Tascams have a tough time outputing enough bias current to operate 911 type tapes. I mod some of them like MS-16's with a larger value bias coupling cap, 100 to 220 pf high voltage WIMA FKP-2 poly film cap will allow enough to bias GP-9, etc, at +9 levels.

Thaumatropemind · Post by **Thaumatropemind** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:50 pm

Judas Jetski wrote:Sure seems like it to me.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about excessive wear unless I was planning to put the thing into constant, heavy use. My suspicion is that "they" are way too cautious for "their own" good. I've run 499 and 996 on my TSR8 on and off and nobody's died or anything... but then my deck has yet to approach regular use (let alone heavy) since I've owned it. And if I'm wrong, it's not my deck that's going to suffer. So YMMV.

Is it even possible to set a TSR-8 hot enough to run +9 (or whatever)? I was under the impression that they wouldn't really adjust that hot. You might try some 456 or SM-911 and see how it sounds.

Thanks for the reply Judas, I'm pretty happy with the way the thing sounds so I think if wear is not going to be such a problem I don't mind the extra cost of the GP9. I had a listen to your Bandcamp stuff too BTW. Was any of it recorded on your TSR-8?

I also liked the piece you wrote about the gig where everything went so wrong it turned out right and enjoyed it very much.

All the best,
PeterJ

Thaumatropemind · Post by **Thaumatropemind** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:40 pm

Jim Williams wrote:Some Tascams have a tough time outputing enough bias current to operate 911 type tapes. I mod some of them like MS-16's with a larger value bias coupling cap, 100 to 220 pf high voltage WIMA FKP-2 poly film cap will allow enough to bias GP-9, etc, at +9 levels.

Thanks for the info Jim,

It's great to hear there are still people working on these machines - I'm hoping there's one or two still around Sydney (Aust).

Also hoping that one day I'm going to find a "parts" machine with a play/record head I can keep as a spare. It's awful to think one day they'll be unserviceable due to lack of parts - but I digress.

One thing I have noticed is there's a couple of (really, really heavy) kick-drum tracks on part of one of the tapes I got with the machine that I can't erase. No matter what I do there's still just a ghost of a signal there.

I guess the only sure way of knowing how it's set up is to take it to a someone that knows the machine and get them to have a look.
There are a couple of service stickers on the back (late '90s), but I've yet to find a current contact for the tech.

Anyone know someone in/near Sydney?

P.S. It does concern me a little that at this stage of its life (though it's well preserved) I'm pushing the machine ever closer to extinction by running it at the edge of it's capacity - though as Judas said in his reply, there's little evidence so far that running the GP9 is that much of an extra strain on the transport/heads of this machine etc.

Any further advice in this area would be much appreciated.

PeterJ

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:48 pm

Try my friend Jim Finch in Orange County, California. He's the former head of the Tascam repair dept. in Montebello, CA. He was there for 30 odd years and retired last year when Gibson bought them out.

He does independent repair now and knows the machines inside and out. He may also have some spare parts. His email is:
JFinchJr@yahoo.com

Thaumatropemind · Post by **Thaumatropemind** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:06 pm

Jim Williams wrote:Try my friend Jim Finch in Orange County, California. He's the former head of the Tascam repair dept. in Montebello, CA. He was there for 30 odd years and retired last year when Gibson bought them out.

He does independent repair now and knows the machines inside and out. He may also have some spare parts. His email is:
JFinchJr@yahoo.com

Gibson bought Tascam? Wow, I wonder how that's working out.

Many thanks for the contact Jim. I'll email Jim W.

All the best,
PeterJ

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:02 am

I heard Gibson is working on a digital recorder that tunes itself. Besides firing the ex-Tascam employees, all the repair parts and parts stock was sold off or sent to the LA landfills. If you can't get a Tascam part, you can look for it at the LA dump.

floid · Post by **floid** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:29 am

Jim Williams wrote:I heard Gibson is working on a digital recorder that tunes itself. Besides firing the ex-Tascam employees, all the repair parts and parts stock was sold off or sent to the LA landfills. If you can't get a Tascam part, you can look for it at the LA dump.

Thaumatropemind · Post by **Thaumatropemind** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:05 pm

Jim Williams wrote:I heard Gibson is working on a digital recorder that tunes itself. Besides firing the ex-Tascam employees, all the repair parts and parts stock was sold off or sent to the LA landfills. If you can't get a Tascam part, you can look for it at the LA dump.

I'm sorry to hear that Jim, I seems "human resources" are often the ones first jettisoned in the name of increased profitability - though I admit I really don't know much about this particular (Gibson/Tascam) situation, only what I've read in the last half-hour on the web.

I have to say that Gibson's flirtations with "hi-tech" (google "gibson firebird x") don't always fill me with joy, so hopefully they'll let Tascam do what Tascam does.

The Scum · Post by **The Scum** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:53 pm

Gibson have a terrible reputation for acquisitions, particularly high tech ones.

Go prepare a stiff drink, then track down the story of Lynx Crowe and Oberheim.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:19 pm

Hey, sorry to be so slow responding. I didn't realize things were still happening here until just now.

Thanks for giving the Bandcamp tunes a spin. The Judas Jetski "Camp" EP was mostly recorded on TSR8, with the drums being recorded to 3 tracks of a Tascam 424 Mk. II cassette deck (I was working fast). "North Country Punk" used TSR8 some too, but tons of that stuff was recorded either on 424 or Fostex Model 80 1/4" 8-track.

The AllOne EP was recorded entirely on TSR8 (unless I'm forgetting something), using Ampex 499.

http://andysmash.bandcamp.com/album/allone-ep

I really, deeply, sincerely hope that the whole "Gibson Buys Tascam, Throws It Out" is just a practical joke or something. But I say this knowing in my heart of hearts that it's probably all true.

wkrbee · Post by **wkrbee** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:24 pm

Generally,tape machines setup for 456,recording using 499/GP9/996 will sound like the high end is exaggerated due to the machine being under biased for the tape.Running 456 on a machine biased for 499/996/GP9 will tend to sound muffled due to the tape being overbiased.

Thaumatropemind · Post by **Thaumatropemind** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:41 am

wkrbee wrote:Generally,tape machines setup for 456,recording using 499/GP9/996 will sound like the high end is exaggerated due to the machine being under biased for the tape.Running 456 on a machine biased for 499/996/GP9 will tend to sound muffled due to the tape being overbiased.

Thanks wkrbee, it's difficult to make a judgement without experience of how the machine performs set up to factory specs, but it's helpful to know what I should be looking (hearing) for.

To my ears the sound I'm getting off tape is not suffering unduly from either of the symptoms you've mentioned. Not very scientific, I know.

As time goes by I'm more inclined to think it has been set up for the GP9 and other than the possibility of being a bit harder on the transport mechanism I'm happy to keep on working with it as is and with the GP9 - which thankfully is available here in Australia.

Eventually I'll get it to a tech and find out for sure but I've really appreciated all the responses I've received so far so thanks all.

Thaumatropemind · Post by **Thaumatropemind** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:42 am

wkrbee wrote:Generally,tape machines setup for 456,recording using 499/GP9/996 will sound like the high end is exaggerated due to the machine being under biased for the tape.Running 456 on a machine biased for 499/996/GP9 will tend to sound muffled due to the tape being overbiased.

Thanks wkrbee, it's difficult to make a judgement without experience of how the machine performs set up to factory specs, but it's helpful to know what I should be looking (hearing) for.

To my ears the sound I'm getting off tape is not suffering unduly from either of the symptoms you've mentioned. Not very scientific, I know.

As time goes by I'm more inclined to think it has been set up for the GP9 and other than the possibility of being a bit harder on the transport mechanism I'm happy to keep on working with it as is and with the GP9 - which thankfully is available here in Australia.

Eventually I'll get it to a tech and find out for sure but I've really appreciated all the responses I've received so far so thanks all.

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