Guitar-amp simulation, '15

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:47 pm

vvv wrote:I remember for a while guys at my old hang, VS Planet, spoke highly of the V-Amp, and I've actually been to jams and had guys use a POD, had guys come over to record with a POD, and had guys send me tracks they recorded with a POD for me to mix.

Been a while, tho', except I jammed last fall with a guy put a POD in front of his Marshall DSL - sounded like a electric razor.

I'd get a POD if I played out more, and plug my Variax into it...

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:49 pm

Actually, sounds like something Trent Reznor or Adrian Belew might do/have done ...

Trick Fall · Post by **Trick Fall** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:15 pm

I liked my Pod XT until it died. The Zoom G5 is cool, but I like it more for effects then the amp sims.

comfortstarr · Post by **comfortstarr** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:35 am

As I've been thinking about this more, I realize what I need: basically a 1 channel instrument preamp, with a 1/4" hi-z input on the front. Something like this: http://blacklionaudio.com/?p=2295. It would run into a Metric Halo 2882. Right now I use a passive DI. I have to crank the pre on the 2882 to get a usable signal. I run my bass in through a Tech 21 BDDI. That has gain (and the 2882 can power it). But for guitar I'd prefer some more, and relatively uncolored, signal going into the 2882. The Black Lion thing is very very nice looking, but I don't want to spend anything like that. Maybe I'm out of luck.

kslight · Post by **kslight** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:12 pm

vvv wrote:

Actually, sounds like something Trent Reznor or Adrian Belew might do/have done ...

Variax, the Line 6 guitar...not variac, the power reducing gadget. And Adrian Belew and Charlie Clouser are known Variax players (Adrian's signature PRS even had Variax guts) so it's entirely possible that they and Trent Reznor have done this..,

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:39 pm

Yep, that's what I thought, and yep, I understood you.

Reznor gets some of the best fucked-up guitar sounds this side of Radiohead, and Belew is out there, out there, out there ...

I actually have a "Wampeters, Fomas and Grand Falloons" story about each of NIN and Belew:

Robin Finck was/is NIN's guitarist (and now GNR, also) before/alongside Clouser but started out with a band called Impotent Sea Snakes whose label (Pravda) I did some work for - weirdness ruled there and I remember meeting those guys and being scared - last time I saw them the band was arrested for fighting with the audience (Club Dreamerz in Chi, mebbe '92?). They had this one thing they did involving a guy inna a nun's costume in a wheelchair and a huge dildo ...

And Adrian Belew lived for a time in Champaign, IL and I used to see him hanging out in a club (Mabel's) that a R-n-B/roots-rock guy named George Faber owned in the early '80's - Belew was already a celeb because he had toured with Bowie and Crimson and worked with T-Heads and Zappa ...

Wagz · Post by **Wagz** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:09 am

Don't think it's been brought up yet. But thoughts on the Kemper? Got to play around with one of those once.. Holy proper sampling batman. Had it sampling a twin reverb we had in the room. Were switching back in forth. Aside from the sound of the switching back and forth the thing was spot on.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:08 am

the kemper looks awesome, but soooooo expensive....

ashcat_lt · Post by **ashcat_lt** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:08 pm

comfortstarr wrote:As I've been thinking about this more, I realize what I need: basically a 1 channel instrument preamp, with a 1/4" hi-z input on the front. Something like this: http://blacklionaudio.com/?p=2295. It would run into a Metric Halo 2882. Right now I use a passive DI. I have to crank the pre on the 2882 to get a usable signal. I run my bass in through a Tech 21 BDDI. That has gain (and the 2882 can power it). But for guitar I'd prefer some more, and relatively uncolored, signal going into the 2882. The Black Lion thing is very very nice looking, but I don't want to spend anything like that. Maybe I'm out of luck.

The passive DI is a voltage step down, which is the wrong direction for a passive guitar whose output is already a bit weak compared to nominal line level.

The instrument input on many interfaces goes the other way. They very often have 9-10db gain automatically, and can push very hot humbuckers over 0dbfs. If you're distorting it further with an ITB amp sim, that's not usually a big deal, but if you end up wanting it cleanish...

I prefer to run unity gain into a line input via a buffered guitar pedal. Lately, I've been using my Boss DigiDelay. The InZ is plenty high for a guitar, and the OutZ is plenty low for my converters' Line Ins.

Andrew707 · Post by **Andrew707** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:14 pm

I have an old Boss GT3 that I bought new way back when, also have a couple Vox Amplugs and then various bits of software. I mostly use the GT3 and Amplugs, cuz I hate tweaking software sims with a mouse. That said, I got a Fender amp a couple weeks ago (after a couple years without an amp) and I couldn't be happier. I'm hoping to just retire the sims.

Wagz · Post by **Wagz** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:27 pm

The kemper is expensive. But if you plan on having more than one good amp.. then the price point is suddenly very convenient. I'm half tempted to save up and get one for the studio. Anytime someone comes in with an amp I like I would just sample it. This thing was the first unite that really convinced me on amp modelers.

Was never really impressed with the Eleven and the pods. Which were the only other ones I've heard.

The eleven is ok I guess. Sounds real enough for plenty of things I'm sure. But when I was showed it it seemed to instantly emulate an overproduced cookie cutter amp. It sounded less like a proper amp and more like some 'finished for rock radio' guitar sound.

comfortstarr · Post by **comfortstarr** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:51 am

ashcat_lt wrote:
comfortstarr wrote:As I've been thinking about this more, I realize what I need: basically a 1 channel instrument preamp, with a 1/4" hi-z input on the front. Something like this: http://blacklionaudio.com/?p=2295. It would run into a Metric Halo 2882. Right now I use a passive DI. I have to crank the pre on the 2882 to get a usable signal. I run my bass in through a Tech 21 BDDI. That has gain (and the 2882 can power it). But for guitar I'd prefer some more, and relatively uncolored, signal going into the 2882. The Black Lion thing is very very nice looking, but I don't want to spend anything like that. Maybe I'm out of luck.
The passive DI is a voltage step down, which is the wrong direction for a passive guitar whose output is already a bit weak compared to nominal line level.

The instrument input on many interfaces goes the other way. They very often have 9-10db gain automatically, and can push very hot humbuckers over 0dbfs. If you're distorting it further with an ITB amp sim, that's not usually a big deal, but if you end up wanting it cleanish...

I prefer to run unity gain into a line input via a buffered guitar pedal. Lately, I've been using my Boss DigiDelay. The InZ is plenty high for a guitar, and the OutZ is plenty low for my converters' Line Ins.

Thanks for not saying "you're doing it wrong"! This is good info. I have a Line 6 M9 that might be good for this.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:44 am

i've been checking out a couple amp sims this past week. first i tried magix vandal....and i really wanted to love it, as i know that sascha eversmieir was the brains behind it, and everything else that guy has made (fishphones, u-he) is flat out amazing.

it's pretty cool. i could make it work. i didn't love it though.

so then i tried the scuffham s-gear, and honestly, i plugged it in (well, you know, i clicked), and just sat and played for awhile before even touching a knob. really impressive. the designer very wisely has the default program open with a nice, subtle, tasteful reverb on it, which really helps it feel like a real amp in a room and not this flat, dead sound sitting right at the front of the speakers.

the thing that i really liked about it is it's super responsive to playing dynamics, and the various amps all have a lot of range on the in-between settings. i.e. i feel like most amp sims fail at subtly distorted tones. clean sounds and super high gain metal sounds seem like they're not too hard to do convincingly, it's the subtle breakup sounds that seem hard to get right.

gonna mess around more later tonight after i finish today's record.

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:53 am

That makes sense about the semi-dirty being hard to simulate. It seems the most complex dynamic as you can often coax purely clean to fairly saturated sounds on a semi-dirty amp depending on your picking attack. On top of that certain frequencies tend to distort differently, and at different levels than other. If someone could show me an amp simulator that could get that gorgeous nearly-farty sound of a humbucker in the neck position assertively playing single note lines on the wound strings I would stop scoffing at them.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:47 pm

" "neck" position", right?

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