RegisterRegister
Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages
Log inLog in
FAQ  -  SEARCH  -  MEMBERS  -  FAVORITES  -  PROFILE
What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    Tape Op Message Board Forum Index -> Recording Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Professor T
pushin' record


Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 201
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:34 pm    Post subject: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

Recording practice this weekend and I'm planning on setting up like this. Do you guys see anything that could be improved?

I'm doing the bass direct because I think it needs to have presence and immediacy more than most instruments.


_________________
Bob Mayo on the keyboards...Bob Mayo

http://www.theprofessorslounge.com
http://www.myspace.com/theprofessorslounge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RoyMatthews
re-cappin' neve


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 770
Location: Sunnyside Queens, NY

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

Just checking, the positive lobes are facing "west" right? Towards the drums? If so then, theoretically, it could work but it's so hard to say how it'd sound in the real world. Try it and listen back. Keep making adjustments and move the players to mix 'in the room'. You'll still probably have bass leakage every where depending on how loud the amp is. Also, hearing the vocals may be an issue for the other players. One of those monitors may have to be moved by the band.

Also, looking at it, where is the keyboardist physically playing? Keep that in mind when imagining the arrangement of the players and how they'll fit in the space and affect placement around the mics.
_________________
"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."


Last edited by RoyMatthews on Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
A.David.MacKinnon
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 2912
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

As long as the players are on board and willing to change their volume to suite the mix it can work and sound great.
_________________
Dave

http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com
http://adavidmackinnon.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Professor T
pushin' record


Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 201
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

RoyMatthews wrote:
the positive lobes are facing "west" right?


Yes, that is correct.

I'm not sure where everyone is going to stand. I think we will have to see what space is left after we get set up!

I'm looking forward to doing this. I'm so much more excited by this sort of recording than the "close mic everything and mix it in the box" way of doing things.
_________________
Bob Mayo on the keyboards...Bob Mayo

http://www.theprofessorslounge.com
http://www.myspace.com/theprofessorslounge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A.David.MacKinnon
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 2912
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

I've done this kind of thing a few times and always found that it's best to get everybody set-up, track a bit, listen, make adjustments, listen, make adjustments, listen, etc.
Once everything is good to go I've often gone in and added a few spot mics on the stuff that doesn't present itself as well as it should in the room mics. Things like a close mic on the kick in case you want to dial in a bit more attack then is present in the main mics (and to be able to work on the bass/kick relationship a little more in the mix), or a close mic on the sax if it isn't cutting as much as the brass. Sometimes the positioning of a source is really good but it isn't as loud as I'd like or the tone isn't quite there. In those situations I'd rather put up a spot mic than have the player move closer to the main mics and possibly throw off the vibe of everything else.

The greatest thing about this approach is that even if the set-up takes a bunch of time once it's done there's not much else to do and mixing is quick and easy.
_________________
Dave

http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com
http://adavidmackinnon.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4444
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

I would change the placement of the keyboards.

Make them almost mono, as if a guitar.

Then they won't washa ll over everything.

Cheers
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Professor T
pushin' record


Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 201
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

Hey everyone - I thought I'd come back and post some results.

We set up like the image above, with one small change. The line out of the bass wasn’t very good, so we put the amp right about where the word “horns” is. It was not loud at all in the room, but the ribbon mics picked it up. The mics were just below the top of the kick drum and three feet in front of it. I tried to get everyone as close to the mics as possible to minimize "Room" sound (an untreated garage).

https://soundcloud.com/vomitzombie/amgold5minutedemo

Let me know what you think!
_________________
Bob Mayo on the keyboards...Bob Mayo

http://www.theprofessorslounge.com
http://www.myspace.com/theprofessorslounge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RoyMatthews
re-cappin' neve


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 770
Location: Sunnyside Queens, NY

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

I think it sounds pretty good. If I were picky I'd like there to be more horns but I also kinda skipped around a bit and maybe miss parts where they were better represented. Other than that everything it pretty well balanced. And the bass sounds fine. I suppose instead of a line out you could have shown a spot mic on it but it wasn't needed.

Good job.
_________________
"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alexdingley
suffering 'studio suck'


Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 448
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

Final result sounds pretty good! I can't tell if it's the .mp3 conversion for SoundCloud or just the response pattern of the ribbon mics... but there's not a ton of high-frequency content there. Seems like it rolls off a bit above 3K. All told, the balance is great.

So... the vocalists are direct mic'd and the Blumelein pattern is just for the band, right?

Anyone know of any albums I should check out which use this technique? I think the Cowboy Junkies did an ambisonic recording for the Trinity Sessions... but I've never listened past their 'Sweet Jane' cover.
_________________
ADSR | facebook | twitter | linkedin | Instagram
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4444
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

alexdingley wrote:
Final result sounds pretty good! I can't tell if it's the .mp3 conversion for SoundCloud or just the response pattern of the ribbon mics... but there's not a ton of high-frequency content there. Seems like it rolls off a bit above 3K. All told, the balance is great.

So... the vocalists are direct mic'd and the Blumelein pattern is just for the band, right?

Anyone know of any albums I should check out which use this technique? I think the Cowboy Junkies did an ambisonic recording for the Trinity Sessions... but I've never listened past their 'Sweet Jane' cover.


I find that feeding mixes that are less loud helps. Because that SoundCloud conversion eats almost anything near -3dB and louder.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
alexdingley
suffering 'studio suck'


Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 448
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

Nick Sevilla wrote:
I find that feeding mixes that are less loud helps. Because that SoundCloud conversion eats almost anything near -3dB and louder.


oooh... very interesting. Will make note of that next time I post to that.
_________________
ADSR | facebook | twitter | linkedin | Instagram
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4444
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

alexdingley wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote:
I find that feeding mixes that are less loud helps. Because that SoundCloud conversion eats almost anything near -3dB and louder.


oooh... very interesting. Will make note of that next time I post to that.


I spent time uploading some of my mixes into there, listening and re downloading them for comparison. Just 4 or so mixes, they all had the same problem, which went away the moment I got down to normalizing the level of the files down to -3dB. Much better on their playback interface after that was done. Less than that and I could still hear their algorithm crushing things here and there. Nasty for sure.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4444
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

PS I came across this because in radio, very much the same thing happens when you submit full scale loudness files: Their pre broadcasting processing also phucks up stuff which is too loud.

Yet another point towards NOT making things as loud as possible.

The best proof was when my CEO flew on business all the way to Nigeria, got in a cab, and they were playing one of our shows. It sounded perfect, especially when compared to the other stuff he heard during that ride and other ones while there. Nigeria uses BBC standards, which are very similar to US broadcast standards.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Rigsby
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 2908
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

I'd like more kick or more presence in the kick, but otherwise it's sounding pretty good to me. Horns do get lost a little.
_________________
The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away.

rigsbysmith.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
joninc
carpal tunnel


Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1685
Location: canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you think of my Blumlein +2 setup? Reply with quote

pretty cool! great players. nice pocket and groove. some great singing too.

i'd probably take a little less of the hard panned guitars and just eq this mix up a little more for some crispness. it's fairly low mid heavy and dull on top. add a shelf at 10k and boost a few db. maybe reduce a little in the 300 hz area and a little boost at 50hz.
_________________
the new rules : there are no rules
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    Tape Op Message Board Forum Index -> Recording Techniques All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum