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Click on scratch tracks?
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Drone
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Joined: 18 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Maybe this is where being an amateur wins out, I don't have as much to listen to. Mr. Green

For my one band, I'll do rough mixes of entire sessions, and mark them by date, we'll all listen to them by ourselves, whilst going about our daily grind, and then come back with what stuff we like, what we think can be mixed into something, what we think was good but should be re-recorded.

But it does help to have that extra input, on my solo stuff, sometimes it's a little harder to sort out. Rolling Eyes
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kslight
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Nick Sevilla wrote:
To those of you like recording EVERYTHING:

Listen back to ALL OF IT. Caveat Emptor.

LOL.

Then try to decide which is the "good" stuff.

After a few hours / days of this folly, you'll come around.

My personal comping record is 142 takes of lead vocal, FOR ONE SONG. not including backing vocals. I think after that, I have a pretty good idea of just how insane this method really is. Yes, I did get paid hourly for this insanity.

Cheers



Sounds like that session needed a producer? Yeah we've all probably worked with talent that wasn't...talented...or wasn't prepared for the session. Either way, beats working at 7-11.


I would never make them go through and do 142 full takes, maybe one or three to get warmed up and if they aren't gonna get it strong in one take (very likely) we will go section by section, comping as we go. And if they aren't getting sections, we resort to lines. Most singers start to sound like shit after so much time/cigarettes go by so it is not fruitful for either of us to sit there for hours while they struggle. If they aren't getting it within the first several tries we move on and go back later. But I will keep all potentially good out takes in case I have to grab a word or something later, in case something doesn't sound as good as I thought it did.

If we are going for different vibes on drums is not uncommon for us to do 5-15 full takes where the drummer is jamming and trying different things, and we will go back and listen to them all, pull fills and sections here and there, because sometimes the fills are only great once or the drummer pulls something weird that is awesome.
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Nick Sevilla
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

kslight wrote:
Sounds like that session needed a producer? Yeah we've all probably worked with talent that wasn't...talented...or wasn't prepared for the session. Either way, beats working at 7-11.

I would never make them go through and do 142 full takes, maybe one or three to get warmed up and if they aren't gonna get it strong in one take (very likely) we will go section by section, comping as we go. And if they aren't getting sections, we resort to lines. Most singers start to sound like shit after so much time/cigarettes go by so it is not fruitful for either of us to sit there for hours while they struggle. If they aren't getting it within the first several tries we move on and go back later. But I will keep all potentially good out takes in case I have to grab a word or something later, in case something doesn't sound as good as I thought it did.

If we are going for different vibes on drums is not uncommon for us to do 5-15 full takes where the drummer is jamming and trying different things, and we will go back and listen to them all, pull fills and sections here and there, because sometimes the fills are only great once or the drummer pulls something weird that is awesome.


This was over a one year period, LOL, no one could survive doing them all at once. LOL no. The artist WAS the producer. Sadly.

Right around take 70, or was it 90? Not sure anymore...

A Real Producer® ™️ © ℗ was brought in.

Who insisted that he could make a better comp than yours truly. (Yes, this was discussed).

THREE DAYS of comping through whatever many takes we already had. Then, we had a COMP SHOOTOUT!!! It was amazing, we brought in disco balls, strings of lights, fog machines, THE WORKS!!!

My comp won out, but the artist still hated all of it. So, we went on to record another "few" takes.

Our tab at the local watering hole skyrocketed... our shrinks invoices were astoundingly large as well.

In the end, we used my comp, done some 6 months earlier, and just completely auto tuned the living fuck out of it. (not in the artificial way mind you, we're not THAT MAD), and the album went to sell a SPECTACULAR amount, in the artist's mind. I think by now, many years later, they might, MIGHT have broken 100 copies.

Pro Tools and Auto Tune kiddos, they are not toys to be trifled with.
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kslight
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Yeah that's why producers exist I guess. I'm not trying to put down your process or experiences just was trying to clarify my workflow, fwiw. At the end of the day have to try to make whoever is paying happy...


I have a song where the real life rockstar drummer decided his 18 year old son needed to sing on it because he'd play it for him and he would say how awesome it is, or whatever. His son is not a singer, or a musician, just a kid with a rock star dad. So he books me to come up, and the kid shows up with no lyrics, we sit and play the song a thousand times to see if he's got any inspiration. Then he decides to throw him in the vocal booth and we record maybe a dozen or so takes of him rambling and improvising and everything except for a coherent idea or singing..and at the end of the day with nothing but takes we sit there and comp together all this bs into the lead vocal parts. Which I'm not gonna say it's entirely successful or that I love it. We have an awesome singer, I dunno why we would put some kid rambling ahead of him.
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Drone
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

There needs to be a Rants and Rambles forum, where people can get this stuff out of their system, and give the rest of us a laugh.

I mean almost everyone has at least one story Mr. Green
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RoyMatthews
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Joined: 30 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Drone wrote:
There needs to be a Rants and Rambles forum, where people can get this stuff out of their system, and give the rest of us a laugh.

I mean almost everyone has at least one story Mr. Green


That's actually not a bad idea. Or at least a thread in the "People Skills" forum.

As an aside. I try to keep as much as possible just in case but I never understood the fear that musicians couldn't play a part again. "Nope, I don't think have that chorus rhythm guitar from three punches ago. Just try it again." " Can you find it?" "Maybe, or you can just take 35 seconds and play it again" I mean I know we may sometimes strive for perfection but still. It's all placebos.
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Drone
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

I think it's a different side of the brain used for playing that part again as there is for coming up with that part in the first place

This of course is heavily dependent on the style of music, the type of musicians involved, etc. etc. but some things just can't be recreated when the musicians are playing to a playback vs. playing at the same time.
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RoyMatthews
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Drone wrote:
I think it's a different side of the brain used for playing that part again as there is for coming up with that part in the first place

This of course is heavily dependent on the style of music, the type of musicians involved, etc. etc. but some things just can't be recreated when the musicians are playing to a playback vs. playing at the same time.


That's certainly true and if a musician is trying an idea i think I do approach it differently than a part that they played dozens of time in rehearsal and on the demo. Sometimes, all of us get a little lazy. Especially in these days of a DAW. Back on tape you'd have the one track to get your part right and you didn't think to complain about what you couldn't get back 5 tries ago. It was on you to play it right.

And I'm sometimes shooting myself in the foot. Spending to get 5 minutes to get a part back goes right in my pocket while on the clock. But if I have faith in you as a musician (which isn't always the case and I get that too) then take the short amount of time and just play it.

There are countless factors which play into it. You've been playing for 6 hours and are tired and this is the last thing to do? I'll dig up that part. I get it.
First bass part of the day and you expected me to start from half way through bar one? Just play it from the top. That E and G weren't gold.
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Drone
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

I think your signature says it all Mr. Green

"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."
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RoyMatthews
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Drone wrote:
I think your signature says it all Mr. Green

"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."


Damn. Hoisted by my own petard.
Well played.
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kslight
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

RoyMatthews wrote:
Drone wrote:
There needs to be a Rants and Rambles forum, where people can get this stuff out of their system, and give the rest of us a laugh.

I mean almost everyone has at least one story Mr. Green


That's actually not a bad idea. Or at least a thread in the "People Skills" forum.

As an aside. I try to keep as much as possible just in case but I never understood the fear that musicians couldn't play a part again. "Nope, I don't think have that chorus rhythm guitar from three punches ago. Just try it again." " Can you find it?" "Maybe, or you can just take 35 seconds and play it again" I mean I know we may sometimes strive for perfection but still. It's all placebos.


With many performances, or performers, I think it genuinely only happens once or a few times... They may play all the notes again, but it won't be the same inflection or vibe. It'll be something different, for better or for worse. If you are recording live bands, then you've really got something unique every time. We may be talking small differences, but imho those small differences and decisions you make throughout the entire process can add up during a record.
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cgarges
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

RoyMatthews wrote:
Drone wrote:
There needs to be a Rants and Rambles forum, where people can get this stuff out of their system, and give the rest of us a laugh.

I mean almost everyone has at least one story Mr. Green


That's actually not a bad idea. Or at least a thread in the "People Skills" forum.


There is already over a decade worth of that stuff in the People Skills Forum!

Chris Garges, moderator of the People Skills Forum
Charlotte, NC
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Drone
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Where do I go for reviews of your latest thrift shop gear find?

I miss seeing Fisher Price toys and voice-changer megaphones reviewed in the magazine Crying or Very sad
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cgarges
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Drone wrote:
I miss seeing Fisher Price toys and voice-changer megaphones reviewed in the magazine Crying or Very sad


Haha! Nice memory! Man, that was a while ago. I've been so busy at the relocated studio that I haven't written anything for the main a while. I'm also trying to think of what whacky stuff I've gotten in recent years. I suppose I could write a review of the "Hummbucker" Electric Kazoo!

Chris Garges
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Drone
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Click on scratch tracks? Reply with quote

Go for it, I miss the 'affordable option' reviews in Tape-Op Mr. Green

Or maybe the electric kazoo could be a how to? Did you put a piezo on it, or, something I keep meaning to try, replace the film / tissue paper with foil and use a magnetic pickup?
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