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first attempt at metal
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ubertar
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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Location: Brooklyn, NY

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/track/the-forests-of-kijhilangar

It's one continuous take, two mics, no overdubs.

What subgenre of metal would this be called, or what tags should I use on the bandcamp page for the piece?

Any mixing/editing suggestions? There are a few timing issues in there I could probably fix by taking out a second or part of a second out at the right spot, but other than that, any thoughts?

I'm planning to do a bunch more along similar lines, each in a different microtonal scale. I also want to do a more jazz-oriented project.
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Nick Sevilla
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

This is not metal in any sense of the word.

Putting distortion on your instrument does not make it metal. LOL no.

I like it, reminds me of a scenario in which Ravi Shankar decided to play an untuned instrument.

Cheers.
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Nick Sevilla wrote:
I like it, reminds me of a scenario in which Ravi Shankar decided to play an untuned instrument.


Why would you like that?

I'm not too concerned about what to call it. If it's not metal, it's not metal. It's definitely not Indian music. I was hoping for some advice for how to improve how it sounds... mixing, editing, eq, that kind of thing.
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joninc
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

my 2 cents:

the clean sound/percussive thing way overpowers the distorted guitar. it also feels like it's DI'd and in my ear and the distorted guitar is down the hall.

I'd make the distorted guitar more present (less reverb and a louder) and less tinny/thin - add some low mids and bottom

I'd put a bit of a room verb on the clean sound.

also there's a noticeable hum on the right side (clean sound) - do you have Izotope RX or some plug in that can suck that out?

this is purely subjective but take it for what it's worth.
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Thanks. I'll try that.
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Just posted a new mix... I applied all your advice, I think it was good. Thanks.
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dfuruta
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

The sound works for me. Impressive playing! I don't think this is metal, particularly.

Is this using your multi-fuzz you posted?
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Thanks Daniel. Yes, this is the triple fuzz. I think I may add a switch so I can send out each of the three outputs separately... right now they're summed to mono. That way each one can have its own amp and I can pan things differently and have more control of the mix after the fact. Should sound bigger and fuller that way too.

How would people describe or categorize this? I've been listening to a lot of metal lately... black metal, doom, some progressive, math core, early Sabbath... and that's inspiring a lot of what I'm doing now. So it's metal-inspired, whatever it is.
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Heavy-progressive-world? Would that be a good description?
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dfuruta
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

to me it sounds closest to the sir richard bishop/paul metzger weirdo "raga" sort of thing. not sure there's a name for the genre, though.
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Never heard of either of them... found some of each on the Free Music Archive... will be checking them out. Thanks.
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Listened to http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Paul_Metzger/ and am listening to http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Sir_Richard_Bishop/ now.

Metzger's work draws from a lot of different influences... I hear Japanese and Flamenco in there, among other things. In Bishop's work, so far I hear mostly Western Classical guitar, until the last piece, which is very strongly Indian influenced, if not just straight-up Hindustani Classical. Both guys are acoustic, and I don't hear any rock in there at all.

I like both, and can hear some similarity with some of my own work, but not as much with the piece I posted here. Apparently it's not coming across the way I intended.
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Nick Sevilla
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

ubertar wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote:
I like it, reminds me of a scenario in which Ravi Shankar decided to play an untuned instrument.


Why would you like that?

I'm not too concerned about what to call it. If it's not metal, it's not metal. It's definitely not Indian music. I was hoping for some advice for how to improve how it sounds... mixing, editing, eq, that kind of thing.


Well I have no ideas... since I have no context other than: "it is not metal".

Ask yourself, what is missing? what does it need? What is superfluous?

Cheers
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dfuruta
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

Fair enough! I guess I was responding more to it being droney, long form improvisation with (forgive me) "exotic" sounding scales, and less to the timbre or tuning. Paul's second track on that link, to me, doesn't sound like a totally different universe, or something by SRB like "Space Prophet Dogon".

To be honest, I didn't pick up on the rock/metal elements as much - I think that, even though I hear some of the sounds (distorted guitar, heavy riffing here and there), I don't hear them as coming from or reflecting those traditions. Not entirely sure why. Might just be my own perspective.
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ubertar
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: first attempt at metal Reply with quote

dfuruta wrote:
"Space Prophet Dogon"


I like this! Thanks for turning me on to it. I'll be checking out more of SCG.

I guess I've internalized some of my influences to the point where I take them for granted and don't really hear them so much in my music anymore... probably Arab, Persian, Indian and Turkish in this case. So what I notice in this are the heavy rhythms (in sections); the right-hand tapping (though I'm using three right-hand fingers and doing a lot of Arab-influenced ornamentation rather than more traditionally metal phrasing). It's nothing at all like 70s or 80s metal, but more recent stuff, like some doom and stoner rock is very droney; progressive metal and math core have odd meters and lots of meter changes; a lot of 21st century metal has middle-eastern flavored scales. But take all of those things that show up in some styles but aren't typical of the genre as a whole and add them together and on top of that use instrumentation that's not expected for the genre and I guess I shouldn't be surprised people aren't hearing it that way. But if it could go in the same category as that Sun City Girls song, hey, that's fine with me.

Maybe as I add more pieces whatever this is will start to reveal itself. Thanks for listening, and thanks for your perspective.
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