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Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor

 
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honkyjonk
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

This is regarding going for everything at once. Vocals included, monitored like they would be at a show, though a wedge.

I don't suppose it would HAVE to be on the floor though.

Just curious if anybody has any tips or tricks here.

I guess supercardiod vocal mics would be good.

Figure of 8 ribbons maybe but it gets tricky as far as where to point that backside.

We're talking guitar and drums here, both players sing.
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A.David.MacKinnon
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

I just did this for a record of my own. It was greats. The band was drums, bass, grand piano, rhodes/hammond and a live vocal. I used an RE20 on my vocal. I had a wedge beside me, another by the rhodes/hammond player and then used a small PA speaker up on a stand for the drummer and bass player.
Nothing on this session was super loud and we probably could have gotten by 100% acoustic without the wedges or headphones. Monitors were nice though. They we're dialled in just loud enough for everybody to hear but without getting vocals in every mic.
The two main benefits were that everybody played quietly and mixed themselves well in the room and you get a decent vocal level in the room mics. The drawback (if you want to even call it that) is that you can't punch in the vocal. I picked my best takes and edited from other takes to make any fixes.
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Magnetic Services
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Speaking of RE-20s and wedge monitors...

Check out the "from the basement" series. Elaborate live-studio setup with lots of instruments, masterfully recorded!

https://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=crmas&p=radiohead+from+the+basement
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Gregg Juke
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Well, I'm more of a "That's crazy, don't ever do it; way too many variables" type of guy, but apparently, many people are far more adventurous than I...

Check-out this episode of Ronan's Recording Show; I think it's the one I remember about tracking vox in the control room with no headphones, monitoring through the... (wait for it...) monitors. Perhaps that will have some bearing/give you some ideas re: your situation.

http://ronansrecordingshow.com/2010/10/recording-vocals-without-headphones-in-the-studio/

GJ
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A.David.MacKinnon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Here's a rough mix of a song from the session I was talking about earlier. It's 99% live (i think there's a tambo overdub). Vocals are an RE20 with wedge monitors. There's no compression happening anywhere yet. The only treatment so far is a little echoplex on the vocal. Because the vocal is live the echoplex also becomes the drum reverb.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2tOcFs86fFyLWVGT0NTUjA2OEU
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vvv
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Cool
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Gregg Juke
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Very cool. I think the piano is a little hot (for my taste anyway). Somewhere between The Band, Ben Folds Five, and Kim Fowley. Nice!

GJ
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A.David.MacKinnon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Gregg Juke wrote:
Very cool. I think the piano is a little hot (for my taste anyway).
GJ


Rough mix. Nothin' but a rough mix.
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Gregg Juke
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Yah. You did mention that. That's why I wanted to get the bug in your ear while I had the chance. "Making friends and influencing people wherever I go." At least that's what mom and dad said I should do...

But seriously, I did want to get across that it's a great recording of a cool song, for the reasons previously mentioned, and, more to the point of this thread, using an approach that I'd shy away from personally, unless it was the only possible way to track it. If the musicians are very experienced, it can work (quite obviously ^^^^ !). But I tend to get a lot of noobs that then want to know why it can't be done just like they do in the garage... I even had a guy that demo'd a song by singing through his Marshall, then wanted to know why we shouldn't track it that way in the studio (but the vocal he was describing he wished to attain had nothing to do with singing through a Marshall)...

Anyways, "Didn't he ramble?" (apparently so).

A. David, it is a sweet piece of song craft, performance, and recording, and I did not mean to imply anything different!

GJ
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A.David.MacKinnon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Gregg Juke wrote:


A. David, it is a sweet piece of song craft, performance, and recording, and I did not mean to imply anything different!

GJ


No offence implied or taken. Thanks for the kind words and yep the piano is likely a bit hot for my tastes too. This might be my first record in 15 years that I let someone else mix.

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack. Back on track.

Wedge monitors, yes, they can work really well but as Greg says above only if the band is good and on they're game. Everybody has to be 100% into going for keeper takes all together. You can edit for fixes but punches and editing any one instrument on it's own get's dicey real quick.
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roscoenyc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Even in an iso room or doing an overdub the monitor on the floor in addition to the headphones with just the voice in there can really help some less confident singers. With a dynamic mic it works great. It can be a really big confidence booster. I've gotten great performances out of some weaker voices this way. I keep one of those JBL EON 10" powered speaker/monitors on hand for this.
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honkyjonk
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

"Everybody has to be 100% into going for keeper takes all together"

Yeah, I actually started this thread after having done this a number of times anyway. I just wanted to see what other folks said.

But if I'm in a band it's my favorite way to record. It's kind of like, the point of having a band with regards to recording. The sanctity of one moment. The stuff you CAN'T do by yourself.

But anyway, my god is it hard to get everyone to even WANT to try. Bunch of fucking babies sometimes. Or just pop sluts I guess.

Anyway, I've been in bands with some people who are not what I would call all that talented, but even they are capable of getting the take. I think it has more to do with focus, desire, and listening than talent.
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Gregg Juke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

Being recording savvy and take-focused _is_ a talent, albeit one that can be developed and perfected.

GJ
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drumsound
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Recording while monitoring vocal thgough wedge/monitor Reply with quote

A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Here's a rough mix of a song from the session I was talking about earlier. It's 99% live (i think there's a tambo overdub). Vocals are an RE20 with wedge monitors. There's no compression happening anywhere yet. The only treatment so far is a little echoplex on the vocal. Because the vocal is live the echoplex also becomes the drum reverb.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2tOcFs86fFyLWVGT0NTUjA2OEU

I don't have much to add to the thread, but I did want to say I dig this tune!
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