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Sennheiser MD421
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drumsound
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

Randyman... wrote:
I'm Painting Again wrote:
Yep..still can't stand the sound of that mic in the port hole.. it's basketball city and i guess it's because of the way the front head is set up (penny taped to beater impact point)..


I've recently found the "Basketball" sound is more attributable to the bare wood shell inside the drum (think about the frequencies that it is reinforcing being a cylinder and highly reflective).

Had a very nice Pork Pie kit in here a few months ago. Was tuned well with light damping built into the batter head, but had the basketball thing happening in a really bad way (even just the acoustic sound in the room had lots of it happening). I simply put a small couch arm cushion inside the shell (not even touching the heads) and BAM - basketball sound GONE! Impact and attack fully retained and even more present with that basketball sound gone.

Almost like lightly treating the reflections in a wood-paneled cylindrical room - lol. The quarter/penny on the beater thing will only accentuate that basketball quality - and the small cushion trick will retain the player's desired beater "chick" and kill a lot of the pingy basketball sound.

That is all Cool

Yep, the basketball thing is COMPLETELY an acoustic thing from the bare wood. The various pre-muffled heads sound great to the listener and player, but you need to put something soft inside the drum if you're putting a mic in there.
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I'm Painting Again
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

any tips for killing snare wire buzz from the toms while keeping the snare lively ?
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losthighway
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

I'm Painting Again wrote:
any tips for killing snare wire buzz from the toms while keeping the snare lively ?


You mean hits on the rack tom excite the snare wires?

I've occasionally found this to actually be awesome in spite of my OCD tendencies. I think I was listening to some record and was loving the drum sound, and then realized I was hearing some snare wires moving on tom hits, and realizing it's not always the enemy.

I don't have a smart mechanical solution, but I find most drummers tom playing is more limited than their kick and snare so it's not horrible just to edit it keeping snares out of tom hits, or taking toms out (or just down) when they're not being used to reduce cymbal hash.[/i]
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A.David.MacKinnon
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

losthighway wrote:
I'm Painting Again wrote:
any tips for killing snare wire buzz from the toms while keeping the snare lively ?


You mean hits on the rack tom excite the snare wires?

I've occasionally found this to actually be awesome in spite of my OCD tendencies. I think I was listening to some record and was loving the drum sound, and then realized I was hearing some snare wires moving on tom hits, and realizing it's not always the enemy.

I don't have a smart mechanical solution, but I find most drummers tom playing is more limited than their kick and snare so it's not horrible just to edit it keeping snares out of tom hits, or taking toms out (or just down) when they're not being used to reduce cymbal hash.[/i]


I have no solution but also have to agree that snare rattle can often make for killer drum tracks. I've had a few sessions where we ended up putting a spare snare on the floor next to the kick so it would rattle with every hit. I don't even think I mic'd it. Just having it in the rooms and oh gave everything so much vibe.
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I'm Painting Again
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

haha

yes toms exciting the snare wires

yea for certain things it can be cool - bet - i can get rid of it completely and still have it sound good but it's at the expense of snare sensitivity - it would be amazing to get the drum to play 100% open and loose and have the toms not excite the wires

the snare in particular is a 14x6.5 black beauty - some other snares don't do it and I'm thinking it's the close size to the toms 12 & 14 that exacerbate the wire excitement
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vvv
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

Hmmm. It strikes me that you could do the toms like Grohl sometimes does the cymbals - add 'em later.
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I'm Painting Again
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:22 am    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

haha wow i wish

If it were me producing the music maybe but it's hard to justify the extra time when it's all on a budget. That and I usually work with folks who really like everything played live at the same time - all the drums and the rest of the band too

i kill u
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vvv
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

It's a aesthetic, mang, a ethos even.

[insert Fugazi joke here - oh, the irony! Twisted Evil ]
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

JUST SAY NO to overdubs and EXTRA NO if they cost over $5
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drumsound
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

Its almost impossible to not excite the snares when playing the toms and BD. Its too bad, because the tom do sound much better with the snares off.

I'm a real stickler for turning off the snares when I'm playing gigs and there are long section where I'm not playing. The bass and guitars rattling the snares when I'm not playing kills the effect of the arrangement for me.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

this is my current technique for reducing the rattling of the wires

no treatment:

http://agatha-christie-fanclub.tumblr.com/post/158633640381

treated:

http://agatha-christie-fanclub.tumblr.com/post/158633525083

I quickly set it up without fine tuning for best performance and have the iPhone pointed at the bottom of the snare to intensify the effect all for a worst case example

you can hear the snares are less sensitive but it works Ok if you'd rather have less buzz..my dream is to have the snare like the un muted wires but the toms not rattle them Mad
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vvv
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

Very cool videos!

FWIW, my fave example of snares bleed is here:


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Randyman...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

Bowie's Blackstar has tons of appropriate snare buzz from the high tom. I actually love it Smile

And lol - "I'm Painting Again" - you are certainly welcome for the de-basketballing tip Cool
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drumsound
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

I'm Painting Again wrote:
this is my current technique for reducing the rattling of the wires

no treatment:

http://agatha-christie-fanclub.tumblr.com/post/158633640381

treated:

http://agatha-christie-fanclub.tumblr.com/post/158633525083

I quickly set it up without fine tuning for best performance and have the iPhone pointed at the bottom of the snare to intensify the effect all for a worst case example

you can hear the snares are less sensitive but it works Ok if you'd rather have less buzz..my dream is to have the snare like the un muted wires but the toms not rattle them Mad

Is the second example just more cotton balls in the snare?
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I'm Painting Again
zen recordist


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 6864
Location: New York, New York

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Sennheiser MD421 Reply with quote

drumsound wrote:
I'm Painting Again wrote:
this is my current technique for reducing the rattling of the wires

no treatment:

http://agatha-christie-fanclub.tumblr.com/post/158633640381

treated:

http://agatha-christie-fanclub.tumblr.com/post/158633525083

I quickly set it up without fine tuning for best performance and have the iPhone pointed at the bottom of the snare to intensify the effect all for a worst case example

you can hear the snares are less sensitive but it works Ok if you'd rather have less buzz..my dream is to have the snare like the un muted wires but the toms not rattle them Mad

Is the second example just more cotton balls in the snare?


same amount..the bunch is slightly shifted due to flipping it over..takes away some of the internal ring of the shell like we have been discussing with the kick drum

also the cotton inside serves to dampen the bottom head slightly..works great with toms BTW..you could really fill it and have a much more drastic result though of course it would prob sound bad to most people

the difference here comes from a gossamer of cotton fiber betwixt the wires and the bottom head..the slightest compromise in snare sensitivity can reduce snare buzz significantly
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