RegisterRegister
Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages
Log inLog in
FAQ  -  SEARCH  -  MEMBERS  -  FAVORITES  -  PROFILE
Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins??
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    Tape Op Message Board Forum Index -> Computer World
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
supafuzz
carpal tunnel


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Beacon NY

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins?? Reply with quote

Is anyone running pro tools without plugins??
Just wondering what negative effect all the plugins I'm using have on the sound quality.

I have hd and lots of outboard so I have most everything I need for sound alteration
echo/compression/eq

Starting to think about limiting my self to 16 tracks only...
one for each channel of my console...

I like limitations....
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3


Last edited by supafuzz on Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
vvv
zen recordist


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7965
Location: Chi

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins?? Reply with quote

I use Cool Edit Pro 2.1 with a bunch of outboard.

I do print with hard-limiting on a lot of stuff and some pass-filtering; I mix with plug-in compression and reverb and/or delays on vocals and occasionally on guitars.

Other than that, I'll use EQ as necessary, and very little else, other than panning and gain-rides that I do manually. I will once in a while add distortion or chorus as a special effect ...

Alla that said, it would be a major change to not use any plugs, altho' I obviously rely on some, but I really prefer a manual approach even to cleaning up tracks, adjusting levels and fades.

But reverbs and delays - gotta have 'em.
_________________
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; blog.
I mix with olive juice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
roscoenyc
george martin


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1266
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins?? Reply with quote

At the studio I rarely use plugins.
At home just about the only ones I use are the UA plugs.
_________________
http://www.cowboytechnical.com/
http://ericambel.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4453
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins?? Reply with quote

Question...

What is "tunning"???

Is this some new, young person's hip phrase? LOL.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
vvv
zen recordist


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7965
Location: Chi

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins?? Reply with quote

Hmmm. I used to go running but bunged a knee. Now I just sit around and eat and drink, a/k/a, "tunning". Twisted Evil
_________________
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; blog.
I mix with olive juice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
supafuzz
carpal tunnel


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Beacon NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: oops Reply with quote

running Pro Tools
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
supafuzz
carpal tunnel


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Beacon NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Digital Reply with quote

I'm just trying to figure out new ways of working and new ways to make things sound better.
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4453
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital Reply with quote

supafuzz wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out new ways of working and new ways to make things sound better.


I always start with the source.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
supafuzz
carpal tunnel


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Beacon NY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital Reply with quote

Nick Sevilla wrote:
supafuzz wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out new ways of working and new ways to make things sound better.


I always start with the source.


Where else would you start?? lol
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
supafuzz
carpal tunnel


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Beacon NY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: re-start Reply with quote

I started out on the wrong path here..I think the more I tune my room and the better gear I get and the deeper my ability to hear becomes...I'm battling against digital and what it does to the source...
There a part of my brain that knows it's not complete and it's getting more difficult to accept it and to try to make it sound the way i want it to. Feels like a compromise
I think that says it.
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4453
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: re-start Reply with quote

supafuzz wrote:
I started out on the wrong path here..I think the more I tune my room and the better gear I get and the deeper my ability to hear becomes...I'm battling against digital and what it does to the source...
There a part of my brain that knows it's not complete and it's getting more difficult to accept it and to try to make it sound the way i want it to. Feels like a compromise
I think that says it.


Again, as I stated before: Always start at the SOURCE. The musician and the instruments. If the guitar / drum / singers voice does not sound 99.99% of the way you want to, it is always uphill and a nightmare from there.

On every single successful album I have ever done (I think I passed 200 albums at some point), this is simply true: When you have the sound at the source, everything after wards is EASY.

Literally everything else beyond that is really downhill.

We once made a record where it took longer to place the microphones in the right place, and get the preamps (Neves) to not distort, and to have, in the drums, a proper phase coherence between all mics. The drums took two entire days to record properly. Then we added electric bass DI which did not need anything (the bass player was amazing), and 4 mics on the piano, which again, we took about 4-6 hours placing microphones, recording a little, listening back, then adjusting one mic a bit, ad nauseam, until the whole trio sounded like a finished record onto 2" tape.

Once we did this, the group took just three - four days to track two takes onto 2" tape, one the keeper take, one an alternate performance just as good.

After that, we added a little reverb, and mixed it all in two days. After that, the trio came in to do final mix adjustments, which took a further day.

We printed onto an ATR 102 1/2" tape.

We used almost no compression, only some EQ on things, to help make them sit together in a simple mix. NO compression on the drums, only on a couple of the piano mics, and on the Bass DI.

This is that record:

http://www.christianjacob.com/music-timelines.html


All you really have to be able to accomplish, is being able to make a CLEAN recording.
Once you know how to do this (it is harder than it seems), then you can decide to add flavor on your end, with a different mic / preamp / processing choices.
But first, really, it is all about a clean, accurate, transparent recording.

That is where the men and the mice are truly separated. If you can make a CLEAN recording, you are 90% of the way there.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
supafuzz
carpal tunnel


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Beacon NY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: 2" tape Reply with quote

The budgets for the artists I work with are never enough to spend too much time...setting up...so I only have the luxury of doing that for my own projects.

Been thinking about switching to Radar and moving away from Pro Tools...for the simplified workflow but haven't heard Radar in person to make the sonic decision.
Or 16 track 2"
I haven't made the transition yet.
Different set of issues there but possibly closer to what I need to hear.
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
roscoenyc
george martin


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1266
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins?? Reply with quote

I have nothing against romanticizing what you don't have but I think you have what you need to do a great job.
_________________
http://www.cowboytechnical.com/
http://ericambel.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A.David.MacKinnon
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 2920
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins?? Reply with quote

I'm with Roscoe. If you've got a board and outboard gear then by all means I'd start by mixing 100% out of the box (or as close as you can get). That's my preferred workflow and it does make a difference for me. Mixes get dialled in quicker and sound more 3D. If all the tunes have a similar set-up you can dial in the first one and then plug all the rest into the same mix template and tweak as needed.
I use a few plugs but not too many. Mostly hi or low pass eq. If the track count is too high to fit on the board I'll do an internal mix of some elements and bus them to a stereo pair.

I'm in the same boat as you concerning budgets and set-up time. It's gotta happen quick. My work around is to know my room(s) and mics really well. I do my research on the artist before the session starts so I've got a rough idea of what I'm in for. I'll have an approach in mind but if it doesn't pan out I'll change it up as quickly as I can.
I did records on tape for years and there's not a huge difference to how I work now. The biggest benefit of digital for me is editing. I track as much as possible live and prefer to make fixes by editing together multiple takes because punching in changes the nature of the bleed. It's also faster and easier on the band and momentum of the session. I worked the same way on tape but it's much much easier now.
Another thing to consider before you buy that 2" 16, if bands can't afford set-up time they won't be able to afford tape and you'll end up sudsidizing or not getting the work. I always get bands asking about recording to tape but as soon as I lay out the cost they change their minds.
_________________
Dave

http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com
http://adavidmackinnon.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
supafuzz
carpal tunnel


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1717
Location: Beacon NY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: thanks Reply with quote

Hey Roscoe... nice to hear from you..
Yeah I know I have all the stuff I need.....you know I'm just bitching about digital sound a little.

And I only mix outside the box.. I have a1970's British all discrete console and lots of outboard..

It's just that restless perfectionist drive...

Shut up and mix!!
_________________
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    Tape Op Message Board Forum Index -> Computer World All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum