let's talk about kick drum mics

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

permanent hearing damage
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:55 pm
Location: philly
Contact:

let's talk about kick drum mics

Post by permanent hearing damage » Wed May 31, 2017 1:51 pm

first off, i mostly record punk/hardcore/metal so often after a pretty scooped sound with a good amount of thump and click. I've been happy with the Beta 52 I've used for years but it just crapped out on me. I am not lacking other options, but they all seem to be less consistently usable.

I had a D112 forever and always hated it (basketball hitting pavement) so I sold it. The Beta 91 is too clicky most of the time. PR40 seems a bit lacking in the subs to my ear. 602 is a little closer, but again a little lacking in subs. M88, RE20 and 421 need a lot more EQ to get to where I want them, typically. M380 seems to lack attack I want. And condenser options are just not the sound I'm after.

I am curious about ATM25 (used one in a studio once and remember it fondly) and an Audix D6. It's not like any of these are expensive, but I'm curious how they compare to the mics above. May just get another Beta 52, but thought it was worth picking the collective TOMB brain

User avatar
Gregg Juke
cryogenically thawing
Posts: 3544
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:35 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Post by Gregg Juke » Wed May 31, 2017 2:19 pm

Our studio has both a D112, whatever the Audix version is (both owned by my associate), and the ATM25 (owned by me). Not for nothing, but I much prefer the ATM25. It's very natural-sounding on both double-headed and single-headed bass drums, muted/padding or no, inside or outside the shell.

GJ
Gregg Juke
Nocturnal Productions Music Group
Drum! Magazine Contributor
http://MightyNoStars.com

"He's about to learn the most important lesson in the music business-- 'Never trust people in the music business.' "

mwerden
suffering 'studio suck'
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:39 pm

Post by mwerden » Wed May 31, 2017 2:28 pm

Another vote for the ATM25. Used constantly during my Blue Man days.
Instagram: @spaceacres
www.acres.space
www.mattwerden.com

Recording Engineer
steve albini likes it
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 3:09 am
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Post by Recording Engineer » Wed May 31, 2017 2:36 pm

I love the ATM25, but you'll find it too balanced for most of what you record. I find the D6 pretty similar to the Beta 52A, but lacks a bit of tightness/lowend focus in comparison.

I too am looking to possibly replace 52s with something else should it make sense... There was one I thought might be a good possibility, to try in comparison, but can't think which right now... Will get back to you!

As for metal specifically, I've been wanting to try a Yamaha Sub and Beta 91A combo.

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Wed May 31, 2017 3:33 pm

It's been a long time since I've used a beta 52, but I've always been happy with the d6. Used it on almost every bass drum I've recorded in 10 years or so.

The d6 is certainly a similar modern style to the 52, but if I remember correctly the 52 sounds even more EQ-d/exaggerated out of the box.

User avatar
Scodiddly
genitals didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3957
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
Contact:

Post by Scodiddly » Wed May 31, 2017 4:47 pm

If you liked the B52, send it in to Shure. They have a great flat rate program where they'll almost certainly just send you a new one.

User avatar
A.David.MacKinnon
ears didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3819
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 5:57 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Wed May 31, 2017 5:54 pm

Another vote for the ATM25. A studio I freelance out of has three and I use them on kick and toms all the time. They're great.
That said, if you like the mic you had you should fix it or get another.

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7086
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by I'm Painting Again » Wed May 31, 2017 5:55 pm

sounds like you're after a tailored dynamic though i would suggest thinking about LDC too

might be more versatile/ work on every tuning and drum though perhaps a little more work to sculpt / keep bleed out

permanent hearing damage
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:55 pm
Location: philly
Contact:

Post by permanent hearing damage » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:57 am

thanks for your thoughts, folks. the EQ/focus is what I like about it, so i may just send it to shure.

I'm Painting Again, do you really find condensers useful for this kinda stuff as a primary mic? I have a lot of options in the LDC department - Blue Mouse, U195, 4050, 414, etc, but way too much bleed for primary mic use, in my experience.

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7086
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by I'm Painting Again » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:35 am

LDC is the sound of jazz kick though plenty of girls and guys will put a 47FET type on the reso for heavy rock (though usually for the lows)


I don't know if one will make you happy as your primary mic but it certainly can be made to work

yes you will almost certainly pick up more room with that type of mic especially if it's outside the drum or open to the room but I feel like it can capture with one mic what you usually need two or three for - it just takes more time/work to set it up perhaps

sounds like you have already tried and find too much bleed - maybe try inside placements or the kick fort thing or under a piano bench style if you haven't ?

that said yea I'm usually using a 602 for rock but I've been on an "experimenting with doing it the unusual way" crusade recently so that's where my mind is at :oneeye:

Jim Williams
tinnitus
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:19 am
Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA
Contact:

Post by Jim Williams » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:03 am

I've used the RE-20 for 30+ years for that. I tried most of the alternatives but always revert back to EV.

It does 30 hz~18k hz flat without proximity effect. I place it for tone and don't worry about it. The lack of proximity effect makes placement easy as the low end will not change with mic diaphram distance.

Placing a cardiod mic with low end proximity effect on a kick drum is a crap shoot I choose to avoid. The RE-20 takes any quality EQ you throw at it well without excessicve snare or cymbal leakage.
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

User avatar
DrummerMan
george martin
Posts: 1436
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:18 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by DrummerMan » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:58 am

Since it seems like you're not going for a flat natural sound and you like the EQ of the 52, just keep with that. I've had a new studio partner over the last year and I've actually been surprised how much I've liked using his 52 after years of avoiding "kick mics" with accentuated eq. Granted my re20 and atm25 are not working right now so i havent done a side by side comparison (and i just got sick of trying to get the new-ish 421 to sound right) but the 52 does seem to work pretty damn well for most of the styles we're doing.
Geoff Mann
composer | drummer | Los Angeles, CA

ricercar.record
gettin' sounds
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:55 am
Location: Austin, Tx
Contact:

Re: let's talk about kick drum mics

Post by ricercar.record » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:53 am

if you're looking for similar to Beta52 but "better" (by my ears at least, less basketball on pavement, more natural and accepting towards the final eq I gravitate towards) I tend to go with either the Sennheiser E602 or the EV ND868. Pair that with another large dynamic, LDC, or subkick outside for just capturing more of the Low End and you can generally do well with those.

Although since you're doing rock/metal/more agressive music... yeah the Audix D6 seems right for you, has more of the pre EQd sound, scooped mids, a bit more clicky, and sufficient low end for an inside kick mic.
Or if you want extremely Pre-EQd like almost already there for the scooped and clicky sound check out the Miktek PM11... it's almost hilarious to listen to in this well done kick mic review video by recordinghacks.com, which also has like all of these mics people are recommending, atm25 sounds pretty good as a starting point, I'll have to try that one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOu1duZ35Nw
That Miktek is just so EQd already it makes me laugh listening to it.
Microphone companies tryin to take yer jerb. :lol:
http://www.davidevansaudio.com/ - Recording/Mixing/Producing/DEADfx
http://avensonaudio.com/ - Tech for Avenson Audio

User avatar
Randyman...
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:30 pm

Re: let's talk about kick drum mics

Post by Randyman... » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:12 pm

ricercar.record wrote:Microphone companies tryin to take yer jerb. :lol:
HAHAH LOLZ!!!!!
Randy V.
Audio-Dude / Musician / PC Guru / Crazy Guy

Recording Engineer
steve albini likes it
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 3:09 am
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Post by Recording Engineer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:23 am

So it's the Sennheiser 602 I have wanted to try replacing my Beta 52 applications with and see how that goes!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests