is anyone familiar with Reason?

[mtsince77]

i am looking for a sequencing based program (ibook OS x) and was wondering what people thought about Reason. i currently have digital performer (but mainly use it for sequencing not audio so much) but a friend has Reason and it looked amazing! any input??? thanks

[mtw]

I think reason is a really fun program to use. The sequencing is pretty easy and the ability to "patch" the individual units by hand is a nice touch that keeps things intuitive. Instrument parameter automation is really easy too. IMO you get a lot for $350. I've played with Project 5 also. It's got some nice patches but the interface is not nearly as intuitive as Reason.

[mtsince77]

thanks.

[Milkmansound]

Reason is a lot of fun, but I find it hard to make the program sound good. If you skip the mixer and rewire it through a different program it helps a lot - otherwise there is no headroom, and the audio is like, dense sounding - anybody else notice that?

[b3groover]

Reason is a lot of fun and very easy to use and the sequencer is good. That said, I usually use Reason through Cubase and use Cubase as the sequencer because it's more detailed and easier to edit in... but that's just me.

[seeabove]

Totally concur. Reason is best used as an instrument and the re-wired into a better mixdown program. As a standalone sequencer, yeah, I've found it to be very mid-rangie with no depth / level control.

[DJDM]

I'm partial to Reason myself and use it pretty much exclusivly these days. It's fast and extremely effective. As for the "dense sounding" issue? I haven't noticed that.

[locosoundman]

There are some samples that have obvious artifacts in them though - like the B3 organ sample has a click at the loop point. They can be edited but that is a pain when you just want to get some parts down. Otherwise, it is a good virtual instrument rack to have for the money. The drum samples are pretty good overall.

[DJDM]

I was not overly impressed with the factory samples for the NN19 when Reason 1.0 came out. I pretty much just went out and secured more elaborate instruments elsewhere.
But now Reason ships with a new Refill called "Electro Mechanical" which is also available as a free download to all registered owners with V 2.5.

At over 100 mbs it kicks tremendous ass!

Wurlitzer EP100
Wurlitzer EP200
Fender Rhodes MK I (tubed)
Rhodes MK II
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Clavinet D6
Hammond Model A

All with very nice multisamples for the NNTX

Check it out here: "Electro Mechanical"

Check the demo tracks here: mp3 demos

Did I mention that I love this Refill?

[Mr. Dipity]

i am looking for a sequencing based program (ibook OS x) and was wondering what people thought about Reason. i currently have digital performer (but mainly use it for sequencing not audio so much) but a friend has Reason and it looked amazing! any input??? thanks

Personally, I don't like reason.

I don't like the sounds of the synths that come with it, I don't like the limited number of very lo-fi effects that come with it, I don't like the fact that the tool is 'locked down' and requires you to have all the refills that you created a peice on hand in order to place it, I don't like the fact that importing and exporting midi to other programs can't be done, and I don't like it's sound quality >at all< - it's render engine is a peice of crap.

Live 4.0 looks to be much, much better at doing the same sort of stuff - you can use your own VST and VSTi combinations, control external programs, and get much, much better looping that Dr.Rex could ever do. That said, it's a great deal more cpu intensive than Reason.

Just my opinion - others seem to love it.

[DJDM]

Personally, I don't like reason.

I don't like the sounds of the synths that come with it, I don't like the limited number of very lo-fi effects that come with it, I don't like the fact that the tool is 'locked down' and requires you to have all the refills that you created a peice on hand in order to place it, I don't like the fact that importing and exporting midi to other programs can't be done, and I don't like it's sound quality >at all< - it's render engine is a peice of crap.

Live 4.0 looks to be much, much better at doing the same sort of stuff - you can use your own VST and VSTi combinations, control external programs, and get much, much better looping that Dr.Rex could ever do. That said, it's a great deal more cpu intensive than Reason.

Just my opinion - others seem to love it.

Wow. You really seem to hate it?

I can't argue the non specifics with you but I have to say you are off a bit about the effects and the render engine. The reverb that came with versions 1-2 was pretty limited being mono. I still like it for certain effects but it really was a weak spot. And don't get me started on the distortion... that was the weakest part of the program. Unless you wanted acid type effects then it's fine.
But they addressed all of that in 2.5. The RV7000 is brilliant. I did beta testing for them and all of the logs indicated/referenced Lexicon. Over and over so it was not a mistake. You do the math. It's a beautiful reverb.
And the Scream 4 is very phat. Period. If you have not used either of them you should try them out.
As for the render engine? I don't know what you don't like about it but I have yet to meet anyone that can pick out a rendered version against a live Reason track.
Oh and you can import and export midi data. If you are thinking of midi out rather than midi export then you are correct. Most people just ReWire to midi or DAW software if they want to use external devices with Reason. Which works really well if you have not tried it.

But to each their own. If it does not work for you it does not work for you.

For me it is an elegant solution that sounds phenomenal and allows me to do very full arrangements without eating my CPU up on VSTs. I like VSTs and all but I can't do half with them what I can do with the same speed and grace that I can with Reason.

Like anything Reason has a few drawbacks (sound and performance not being any of them) but they are so outweighed by the sheer effectiveness of the tool that they are rendered all but moot IMHO.

[Mr. Dipity]

Wow. You really seem to hate it?

I can't argue the non specifics with you but I have to say you are off a bit about the effects and the render engine. The reverb that came with versions 1-2 was pretty limited being mono. I still like it for certain effects but it really was a weak spot. And don't get me started on the distortion... that was the weakest part of the program. Unless you wanted acid type effects then it's fine.

I had no idea there was such a difference between 2.0 and 2.5 - I have only used the former (though quite extensively, and eventually against my will :>)

My problems weren't just with the reverb and the distortion however - the phaser and compressor are pretty much tinkertoys IMHO (at least, in 2.0)

But they addressed all of that in 2.5. The RV7000 is brilliant. I did beta testing for them and all of the logs indicated/referenced Lexicon. Over and over so it was not a mistake. You do the math. It's a beautiful reverb.
And the Scream 4 is very phat. Period. If you have not used either of them you should try them out.

I no longer own the program, though I have friends who do. If I ever get out of the studio, and talk shop with another human being again, I'll ask them about it. Then again, they didn't fall quite as out of love with it as I did - I think they are still using it.

My main issues were with it's lack of flexibility, and the suckiness of the VA synths. The grain table one is at least a new take on things, but since you are stuck with ho-hum processing,

Also, that 'instert the disk with refill XXX on it to continue' used to drive me batty. I was running off a laptop with the refills on an external drive, and you had to locate every damn refill you had every time you loaded them. Sure, I could have put them locally, but laptop drive space was rather precious at the time.

As for the render engine? I don't know what you don't like about it but I have yet to meet anyone that can pick out a rendered version against a live Reason track.

I was refering to the live output - the mix engine, rather than 'live vs. pre-rendered' - the lack of subtlety in the volume controls, and general 'ear fatigue'. I'd be surprised if Reason is mixing with more than 16 bits.

(I just spent ten minutes looking for a link to a page where someone did tests on mix phase and render, and showed how playback and be off enough samples for sound to become decoherent. This is different from the 'samplers playing back a sine wave to see badly they alias' comparisions pages - the samplers in reason always get relatively good marks at that - (not that I'm quite bat eared enough to know the difference. Though I can tell that Emagic's sampler really sucks). Still, I'm just spreading FUD without the link so you can disregard this complaint, till I come back with better evidence, apart from my ears.)

Oh and you can import and export midi data. If you are thinking of midi out rather than midi export then you are correct. Most people just ReWire to midi or DAW software if they want to use external devices with Reason. Which works really well if you have not tried it.

Yes, I meant the control of other hardware/software.

Another gripe I remember, though probably user error - you might want to point out how to do this for the others here - I could never get notes to play when mousing them in - only by hitting the piano keys: it made for pretty poor mousing. Also, I couldn't record automation using the mouse - only with an external controller, or via the controller lanes (At the time, I was doing a lot of stuff on the move, and had been hoping that Reason would allow me to be small and portable, working without a controller a lot of the time).

But to each their own. If it does not work for you it does not work for you.

What you need to take away from this, if you are considering reason, is that it sounds like reason - just like every other tool sounds like itself. It's like choosing a synth - do you want a DX7, or a Juno? Maybe Reason is your sound - you can certainly get things out of it that you can't get any other way. Maybe it doesn't do what you want, or isn't conducive to your workflow.

My personal muse dictates a very wet, organic electronic sound. I prefer a pallete of tones in which you can't quite tell where the synthetic ends and the acoustc begins. Dub style effects, like the PSP84, tape delay emulations, tube saturators, are on pretty much every track. So, I find reason's dry tones a bit 'general midi' for me. If you are going in a dryer, more classical electronic and sampled direction, it's obviously the ticket for many. I guess you need to listen around...

[DJDM]

Another gripe I remember, though probably user error - you might want to point out how to do this for the others here - I could never get notes to play when mousing them in - only by hitting the piano keys: it made for pretty poor mousing. Also, I couldn't record automation using the mouse - only with an external controller, or via the controller lanes (At the time, I was doing a lot of stuff on the move, and had been hoping that Reason would allow me to be small and portable, working without a controller a lot of the time).

You are correct. The only way to play the sounds from the piano roll is by playing the piano keys. It looks like the sequencer was designed to be played via midi more than micro edited via mouse. But there is a solution: If you are on a PC or a Mac there are utilities that allow you to use your mouse to control and play the instruments. Check here: Reason Extras

What you need to take away from this, if you are considering reason, is that it sounds like reason - just like every other tool sounds like itself. It's like choosing a synth - do you want a DX7, or a Juno? Maybe Reason is your sound - you can certainly get things out of it that you can't get any other way. Maybe it doesn't do what you want, or isn't conducive to your workflow.

Or you could just try the demo and decide for yourself here: Reason Demo

And while some of what you are saying is true to some extent I think the issue of Reason sounding like Reason is perhaps a little misleading. That is like saying that ProTools or Logic sound like themselves. I think the Subtractor and the Malstrom have somewhat distinctive sounds if played raw and unaltered or if you use the factory sound bank and the effect presets you will have a sound that can easily be identified by other Reason users. But other than that? Not so much. I mean we are not talking something as simple as a comparison between a DX7 and a Juno but in fact an entire midi studio environment. A studio environment that allows you to input your own samples. That alone will alter the options dramatically for any user.
On that note you should check out some of the refills (I know I know they are a pain if they are not on your local drives, agreed) that use the NNXT as a synth.
Speaking of Juno and DX7 sounds I'm partial to PRO.TON myself. Very cool analog/FM type sounds!

My personal muse dictates a very wet, organic electronic sound. I prefer a pallete of tones in which you can't quite tell where the synthetic ends and the acoustc begins. Dub style effects, like the PSP84, tape delay emulations, tube saturators, are on pretty much every track. So, I find reason's dry tones a bit 'general midi' for me. If you are going in a dryer, more classical electronic and sampled direction, it's obviously the ticket for many. I guess you need to listen around...

Speaking of Dub sounds you should try some of the Dub settings on the RV7000. Seriously. Very cool. And fully programmable.
There was a great tape delay emulator file that is floating around as an .rns file. If I can find a current link I'll post it here.

[kcrusher]

A couple comments:

1. You don't need the refill for a song if you 'save as self-contained'.
2. You can edit automation using the pencil tool
3. The newer fx are much better, though still not what I would say is up to par with logics built in fx. Decent, though and not bad considering how much the program costs.
4. the built in synths are actually very, very flexible and sound awesome when you program them correctly. stacking them is also a great way to get unbelievable synth sounds.

[shaebert]

i have a question about reason....ive herd people say they use it threw Cubase, in whcih i have, how would i do this, and could i do this with Sonar 3 instead of Cubase, thx