Drum Triggers

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operator_tape
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Drum Triggers

Post by operator_tape » Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:41 am

Anyone have any idea of how it works, are the triggers midi or are they sending acoustic signals to a module who then transfers it to midi. I want to record the drums using these and I don't know where I can get more resources to learn more about this technique. Any help is welcome.

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rolandk
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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by rolandk » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:06 am

Are you reffering to something like this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sea ... 0040305867

I messed with them for awhile and ended up going back to mic'ing the kit old school. Anyways, I believe the trigger has a piezo inside it to trigger a midi device- you'll need a midi drum module to make the whole thing work. The triggering can be sketchy and I was dissapointed with the e-drum sounds, but if you have no choice its not too bad.
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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by Family Hoof » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:36 am

The triggers are just little piezo pickups that clip or stick onto the drum and have a 1/4" jack. The operating principle is that when the drum is struck the piezo sends a transient signal of corresponding amplitude to the 1/4" trigger inputs of the drum module. The module then converts this signal into MIDI and uses it to trigger a sample. I've never heard any realistic drum sounds come out of this method but many metal bands seem to love it. In practice I have combined triggered samples with the real mic'd drum sounds on ocasion and it sounds really cool if you can get them to line up right. There is often quite a bit of latency from the midi and conversion process.

operator_tape
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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by operator_tape » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:13 pm

Yeah its basically for a metal recording, I thought since I can't get the mics I want and I have a limited amount of analog inputs in my set-up I could get the drum tracks done in this manner. Has any one ever triggered the drum set and then put two overhead mics to capture the total sound then used the midi info to trigger some multi-sampled drum sounds, to make it sound complete. Any companies that I should look for when doing this kind of recording?

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by Family Hoof » Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:01 pm

That's exactly how it's done in most cases. Position overhead mics to capture mostly cymbals and eq out everything below 500Hz (or even 1k depending on your taste) to get rid of the drums.

operator_tape
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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by operator_tape » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:31 pm

Are there any cheap sound modules out there that can only get the trigger information form the sound source and change that into midi so that I could use the midi info to trigger some cool multi-sampled drum sounds from my computer. Are there any cool multi sampled drum samples out there that I could sink my teeth into?

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by Spark » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:47 pm

I would think the Alesis D4 and DM5 would work well for that.

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by Slider » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:43 am

If you're using a computer (Cubase ect.) drumagog is excellent.
If your using Pro tools you can use Sound Replacer.
If you are not using a computer your best bet is the alesis DM stuff.
Although I think it's a huge pain in the ass to get this stuff to trigger correctly and line up the triggers with the original sounds (which is the key for me).

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by operator_tape » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:58 am

Drumagog, in my opinion, does not work very well, I would like to have multi-sapled drum sounds to work with and it seems that Drumaga does not work very well with that. I can't seem to get any wave files to work correctly, it seems that the only files it accepts are with .gog in there file extension. I am wondering if you can compile these gog files woth another program or not? The Drumagog website also did not offer any good advice. Damn metal bands and there bass drum sounds!!! . :twisted:

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by GhettoDuk » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:34 pm

I recorded drums with just a plain old 2 channel sound card one time back in the day. I put up my overheads, threw a mic on the snare and mixed that down to stereo. Then, I put triggers on the toms and kick and sent those into a drum module (you can use the roland TMC6 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=h ... id/442374/ if you don't need a module that makes sounds). I recorded the midi comming out of the module along with the stereo cymbals and snare in cakewalk. Then I played back the midi channel while recording on a audio channel. I used a custom soundfont to get the samples I wanted. Then I added other instruments and vox and I had a damned good track for somthing recorded through a soundblaster. I learned alot from those sessions about getting alot from very little.
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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by joel hamilton » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:29 pm

"Although I think it's a huge pain in the ass to get this stuff to trigger correctly and line up the triggers with the original sounds"
-Slider

I disagree here. I have used the D4 and the DM5 for years, and they can be amazingly accurate if used properly. If you are planning on triggering, that is. Putting something like a 57 under a small pillow or blanket in the kick JUST for the trigger can be a big help.

I use soundreplacer these days, if even just to layer in a great front head sample I recorded myself alongside the inside kick someone handed me to mix.

The D5 used to work really well for that exact purpose triggering an EMU E64 with a stereo sample of a snare drum being hit in a great drum room I recorded it in.

Soundreplacer works amazingly well for this, especially when printing back to tape.

If you are playing live you can just throw a 57 in your kick that is specifically for use with the trigger, rather than the actual sound of the drum.

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by Slider » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:26 am

operator_tape wrote:Drumagog, in my opinion, does not work very well, I would like to have multi-sapled drum sounds to work with and it seems that Drumaga does not work very well with that. I can't seem to get any wave files to work correctly, it seems that the only files it accepts are with .gog in there file extension. I am wondering if you can compile these gog files woth another program or not? The Drumagog website also did not offer any good advice. Damn metal bands and there bass drum sounds!!! . :twisted:
You can set up multi-samples in drumagog anyway you want.
If you buy Drumagog you get tons of Gog. files which do all the work for you. you can purchase more Gog libraries for pretty cheap if you don't want to do the work yourself.
Metal kick drum tracks work better for me with just a solid sample blended anyway. I turn the dynamics almost off. These bands are usually not very subtle.

Triggering and blending samples is not instantly perfect, so you have to do some work.
IMO using the alesis stuff with the 5 ms delay that it takes to trigger it sounds awful. There is nothing more obvious and fake sounding than a blended sample that hits 3-7 ms later.
There are ways to work around this. But it still sucks.
I remember enginneers in the old days flipping tape and using delays to get around this (not fun).

I have a huge collection of kick and snare samples from all over that I can instantly audition, save and recall.

It's an artform finding the sample that blends and doesn't sound fake.
It's also important to automate it a bit so it never pops out too much.
I never completly kill the real sound unless it's for an effect..

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by Poppatwang » Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:52 am

Check this site http://www.electronicdrums.com/

I built my own kit w/mesh heads & homemade triggers coupled to a Roland TD7.
Nobody's heard the recordings I've made w/ this kit & noticed it was "fake"
drums. There are sonic limitations. Finessed hi-hat & brushes on a snare are
not going to be convincing.

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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by midiot » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:34 pm

operator_tape wrote:Drumagog, in my opinion, does not work very well, I would like to have multi-sapled drum sounds to work with and it seems that Drumaga does not work very well with that. I can't seem to get any wave files to work correctly, it seems that the only files it accepts are with .gog in there file extension. I am wondering if you can compile these gog files woth another program or not? The Drumagog website also did not offer any good advice. Damn metal bands and there bass drum sounds!!! . :twisted:
Drumagog works fine. The only problem I've noticed is you may have to slide the track a few millisecs to line up just right. Barely noticeable.

I know you can use .wav files with drumagog. We make drum samples ALL THE TIME and reuse them occasionally, when needed, with Drumagog.
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operator_tape
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Re: Drum Triggers

Post by operator_tape » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:40 pm

maybe my version just does not work properly because it stalls my computer sometimes but I will try to take care of this and let you guys know what happens

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