Yamaha n12 article

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Yamaha n12 article

Post by bobg (homestudioguy) » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:20 pm

Thanks for sharing the article on the Yamaha n12 digital mixer.
Done very well.
HSG
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Post by inverseroom » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:27 pm

Thanks, that was me! It's a solid product, I think, unglamorous but highly effective.

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Post by bobg (homestudioguy) » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:23 pm

inverseroom wrote:Thanks, that was me! It's a solid product, I think, unglamorous but highly effective.
Again, very nice article!
I happen to own an n12 and it works well for me as it has dragged me into computer recording and working with sequencing/composing.

My one big recommendation would be for Yamaha to add a switch/electronics to allow one to choose either the XLR input OR the TRS input (channels one through eight) as opposed to its current set-up where inserting a jack into the TRS input automatically shuts off the XLR input.

If they did that along with a switch/electronics to choose eq "in" or eq "out", one could "permanently" add multiple outboard channel strips and different pre-amps via those TRS inputs and then have the ability to choose the on-board mic-pres and eqs OR choose the outboard equipment as needed, right at the mixer. (Somewhat similar in concept to the SSL "Matrix" mixer but on a reduced scale.)

It would certainly open up a whole new realm for the n12.

Bob G./HSG
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Post by inverseroom » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:28 pm

homestudioguy wrote:My one big recommendation would be for Yamaha to add a switch/electronics to allow one to choose either the XLR input OR the TRS input (channels one through eight) as opposed to its current set-up where inserting a jack into the TRS input automatically shuts off the XLR input.
Absolutely, I agree. I am using 9-12 as the "permanent" inputs for my outboard pres, but it would be nice to double up on 1-8 and save the rest for other things.

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Interesting development in this arena...

Post by mrclean » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:53 pm

I've been following this thread and Jon's article was great. I'm considering an n8 in the future.

But now Mackie has a new line of FireWire mixers. This one looks like one I might consider:

Mackie Onyx 1220i

There are several models in the new line up. You used to have to pay extra for the add on card but now they built in the FireWire I/O.
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Post by roygbiv » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:26 pm

I agree, thanks for the excellent review Inverseroom.

After reading your review, I am sorely tempted to get one of those Yamaha's.

At the moment, I have a Mackie 1220 with Firewire, but I only use it as a keyboard mixer, since you can't record the Firewire signals post EQ.

It looks like the Yamaha has solved that poblem (and maybe the new Mackie).

But there is something I don't understand about the Yamaha - if you use it as a digital mixer, and tweak the volumes/EQ settings and re-record that on a channel (basically, do a live mix), does that mean the signal went through a generation of AD/DA conversion?

If it does involve an extra conversion, how is it any better than going out of a sound card, through a mixer, and re-recording that.

If it doesn't involve an AD/DA conversion, how does it work? Is it somehow magicfully working on the 0's and 1's level?
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Post by bobg (homestudioguy) » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:35 pm

roygbiv wrote: But there is something I don't understand about the Yamaha - if you use it as a digital mixer, and tweak the volumes/EQ settings and re-record that on a channel (basically, do a live mix), does that mean the signal went through a generation of AD/DA conversion? If it does involve an extra conversion, how is it any better than going out of a sound card, through a mixer, and re-recording that. If it doesn't involve an AD/DA conversion, how does it work? Is it somehow magicfully working on the 0's and 1's level?
"A-D conversion occurs after the gain control but before the 'phase' (polarity invert) switch. " I believe it stays digital from that point on.
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Post by inverseroom » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:34 am

Yeah, I believe that is correct, it would stay digital. Only the pres are analog, so you're not going to get any special mojo out of mixing on the board--it is mostly to get a bit of analog-style experience. Personally, I use it mostly as a set of channel strips, as an interface, and as a general studio swiss army knife...I am pretty much an in-the-box mixer.

Those new Mackies look great, and if they existed when I bought the n12, I might have tried one instead. I like the Onyx pres (had a 400f for a while) but they weren't any better than the n12's, which are very useful.

Last I heard--like a year ago?--Mackie's factory in China burned down, so they couldn't introduce any new products for a long time. This must be the first wave of new stuff, and they seem like a smart move.

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Post by bobg (homestudioguy) » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:08 am

I just quickly looked at the Mackie 1620i on-line, choosing it as it is similar to the n12 ie 8 XLR inputs etc.

What I like better about the 1620i is it having 4 aux sends, phantom power selection on each channel, 4-band eq, pre and post eq selection, and that it is also geared towards doing both recording and live sound.

How the Mackie 1620i appears to be different:
-Has 60 mm faders vs Yamaha's 100mm faders
-Has 1 set of monitor outs vs 3 sets of monitor outs on Yamaha.
-Has 1 set of stereo metering vs 3 on Yamaha.
-Has 1 headphone out vs 2 on Yamaha.
-Yamaha has built-in adjustable compression with an available digital on-line library of other downloadable compression types.
-Yamaha has 3 built in adjustable reverb types (plate/hall room).
-You can daisy chain Yamaha "n" units together to increase channel count up to 32 (if I remember correctly).
-Yamaha unit includes a mixer/monitor/DAW control section with built-in transport controls (currently for Cubase only)

The fact is, each was built with certain goals in mind and the goals are similar but there are differences.
There is a $200 price difference as well with Yamaha "streeting" at $1199 vs $999 for the 1620i Mackie.
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Arriving tomorrow...

Post by mrclean » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:07 am

I ordered a Mackie 1220i - arriving tomorrow.

Will be great to finally record my kit (and others) with more than 2 tracks at a time. I'll post any noteworthy observations...
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Re: Arriving tomorrow...

Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:22 am

mrclean wrote:I ordered a Mackie 1220i - arriving tomorrow.

Will be great to finally record my kit (and others) with more than 2 tracks at a time. I'll post any noteworthy observations...
Do you have any thoughts on the 1220i? The good, the bad?
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I love it...

Post by mrclean » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:20 pm

I think the Mackie is great so far. The unit itself is solid and well built.

Install was easy - I'm running Vista and had no trouble with drivers or anything. This is my first experience with Firewire and was a little nervous - but no hiccups yet.

I'm using Cubase and have had no problems with latency on my system so far. The pres are a step up for me from the basic Alesis USB 8 mixer I was using.
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Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:03 pm

The thing that interests me about the n12 is inserts for 8 channels.

Can any n12 users speak to their use of integrating external devices through inserts with the n12?

MR Clean, are you using the auxes for adding outboard gear during mixes? Or at all?
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Post by mrclean » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:32 pm

Electro-Voice 664 wrote: MR Clean, are you using the auxes for adding outboard gear during mixes? Or at all?
I've got an old SPX90 on aux 1 and an ancient Yamaha R100 on aux 2. I've experimented and made sure they work - and you can send these two channels to your DAW as separate tracks (plus the master L/R out) but I've not mixed with the board.

To be clear - the Mackie only sends a stereo return back to the board from the DAW - so mixing out of the box isn't a feature - but of course you can use it for live mixing. You can assign the two track from the DAW to tracks 11/12 if you want to incorporate in a mix.

As you may also know from research, tracks 1-4 also have inserts. I haven't used them yet.
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