Never should have told my client about Auto-Tune

[lyman]

i have yet to hear and example where autotune makes a bad singer sound good. it makes a bad singer sound like a bad singer with slightly better pitch. that's about it though.

[JGriffin]

Autotune was used on the Cher track.

I sit corrected.

Hey, maybe my suspicions are unfounded, and your info is the truth. I was just stating my (loudmouth) opinion.

That's what internet boards are for.

Oh, and "I sit corrected" is wonderful.

thanks!

[Mark Alan Miller]

i have yet to hear and example where autotune makes a bad singer sound good. it makes a bad singer sound like a bad singer with slightly better pitch. that's about it though.

I understand for sure - if the tonal quality isn't there, it isn't there...

But, I've used it on good singers, who perhaps didn't intone as well as would have been desired but delivered a great emotive performance. Then, cautious subtle pitch correction being applied to the offending pitches... and I stand by my opinion that very very often it's inaudible. (My expaination for this is, if only the pitch is a little out, and the tonal quality didn't go south at the same time, it's not a tough task to nudge the pitch inaudibly, quality-wise. Again, YMMV.)

I would like to remind everyone that prior to "autotune" and it's (semi-automatic) bretheren, folks have been doing all sorts of things to "work" funky intonation - like double tracking, punching in, and since the dawn of the pitch-shifter (Eventide et. al.) correcting pitch digitally. And quite often on singers that aren't considered "bad". Just some thoughts.

[herodotus]

I'm sure Joel can also attest that these half-talent "artists" aren't producing any new ideas number one.
Have you worked with D. Fagan? I wouldn't say that about him.

No I haven't worked with him, but I have read interviews with him, where he said Mozart was hard to play. Bach is much harder than Mozart, as any concert pianist will tell you. Have you studied Bach? His partitas are among the hardest things to play that a keyboardist can learn.

A lot of musicians in the seventies had more talent than they ever used on record "at one time" thats likje playing all your hands at once" or every lick you know in one song.

Jimmy Page screwed up all the time. missed notes, bad intonation, the works.

I mean, have you HEARD the song 'Heartbreaker'? I love the guy, really I mean it, he is a genius, but sloppy.

There were bona fide Rock virtuosos: Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford, and a few others actually developed their technique to that level. But that is rare.

I don't know about Paganinni's singing, after all, Bheetoven was deaf, but, I bet Fagan could either carry a tune well or insist on someone talented to do it.
I've got to go make a photocopy of the Mona Lisa right now and auction it off on ebay for twelve million dolllars.
Gimme a brreak.

What are you talking about?

I don't want to put down Rock music.

Not at all.

I just think that people could lighten up a bit.

[bniesz]

i had a client who didn't have great pitch, so of course, rather than punching ever other word, i started putting light autotune on it.

i rarely use it, but when i do, i turn it all the way up so i can hear what i'm doing, then back it off till i don't really notice the artifacts. well, he got a listen when the A.T. was full on and was like "whoa! you gotta use that effect!" and wanted me to put the hyper-cher setting on for the chorus of one track. sounded like a shitty vocoder. i was so sad.

the band wasn't really phenominal anyway, so it wasn't really like someone was taking a dumb on a picasso.

[JGriffin]

i had a client who didn't have great pitch, so of course, rather than punching ever other word, i started putting light autotune on it.

i rarely use it, but when i do, i turn it all the way up so i can hear what i'm doing, then back it off till i don't really notice the artifacts. well, he got a listen when the A.T. was full on and was like "whoa! you gotta use that effect!" and wanted me to put the hyper-cher setting on for the chorus of one track. sounded like a shitty vocoder. i was so sad.

the band wasn't really phenominal anyway, so it wasn't really like someone was taking a dumb on a picasso.

In a few years he will also realize it was a poor choice. That's part of this whole discussion that's been left out: bad decisions in recording sessions early on become learning experiences later in one's development as a musician or engineer (or both). I made lots of mistakes on early recordings, both as a player and as a knobtwiddler, and listening back or thinking back on those recordings with a little perpective and a little (more) maturity seems very valuable.

That said, don't expose young, impressionable musicians to the full and unadulterated power of any effect--autotune certainly, but especially flangers and delays! They are not spiritually equipped to handle it and they will make poor calls.

[Mark Alan Miller]

That said, don't expose young, impressionable musicians to the full and unadulterated power of any effect--autotune certainly, but especially flangers and delays! They are not spiritually equipped to handle it and they will make poor calls.

That was me when I got my first reverb/fx unit years and years ago. It was on everything...

[drumsound]

That said, don't expose young, impressionable musicians to the full and unadulterated power of any effect--autotune certainly, but especially flangers and delays! They are not spiritually equipped to handle it and they will make poor calls.

A truer statement has never been made!

[Jacob the Recordist]

I never tell client about Auto Tune unless they ask me if I can fix something. There is nothing auto about Auto Tune. I only use it in Graphical because I find that it never quite works in Auto Mode. Auto tuning is like cleaning tile grout in an old bathroom. I call it creating the illusion that they can sing, and I am better at it than I ever wish I had to be.

[Brian]

There are many many musicians other than Bruford or Fripp that have developed their talent to a level that isn't requiring a mechanic to fix parts. I have worked with a whole lot of them.
Phil Collins once said that he used the cheesiest drum machine sound because it was a drum machine and it shouldn't pretend to be a drummer.
I like that school of thought. People who can't sing oughtta do the same thing with autotune and then you'de see how widespread and talentless a lot of big stars of today are.
There was an article in REP a loooooong time ago, early eighties, pre-Joel, when this technology was only in the hands of big studios and only the big singing stars like Whitney and the engineer who leaked the article projected that if this gfot out there would be a big reduction in funds.

[quote/dwlb]That said, don't expose young, impressionable musicians to the full and unadulterated power of any effect--autotune certainly, but especially flangers and delays! They are not spiritually equipped to handle it and they will make poor calls. [/quote]
It's just that they shouldn't be competing with big studios when they aren't seasoned. I blame any label fool who books a studio with an inexperienced engineer too.

[thethingwiththestuff]

blame, blame, blame, blame, blame, blame blame.

the new DP has rubber banded pitch automation. i cant wait to use it on my drum tracks.

[Brian]

blame, blame, blame, blame, blame, blame blame.

the new DP has rubber banded pitch automation. i cant wait to use it on my drum tracks.

Everyone else was doing it. It looked like fun, however, it rang hollow in my head. Why?

[chris harris]

I like that school of thought. People who can't sing oughtta do the same thing with autotune and then you'de see how widespread and talentless a lot of big stars of today are.

but, what if you listen to records just to enjoy music and not as an exercize to determine who's the "best" or who's "REALLY talented"?

[Brian]

I like that school of thought. People who can't sing oughtta do the same thing with autotune and then you'de see how widespread and talentless a lot of big stars of today are.

but, what if you listen to records just to enjoy music and not as an exercize to determine who's the "best" or who's "REALLY talented"?

Then, the Cher record is "good".

[Brian]

If you think about it, it like good and evil. Without the bad music and anyway to tell the difference between good and lousy music/singers/musicianship there is no good music cuz its all good. It also becomes completely uninteresting after a while and not worthy of paying for, hence, the decline in funds.