when guitarist cant play to metronome for scratch track

[lee]

the other day i was with a band and we were trying to start recording an album (track work, not live). i told the guitar player/ singer to play to a metronome thru headphones to set the foundation of the song for the rhythm section to play to (scratch track). he couldnt do it for the life of him. i wasnt getting paid, so after about an hour of this id had enough. then the drummer said, "why dont i play claveys under his playing to keep time?" he tried it again with the claveys and he nailed it the first time. song after song.
i think the reason why some people cant play to a clicktrack (or with headphones for that matter) is because music is only an audioable experience but, subtly, a tactile (touch) experience too. we feel the vibrations of sound and when its not there most people loose the "groove" and cant get into it. so when the drummer gave clicks on the claveys he could feel the rhythm. and he nailed it.
problem solved?

[surf's up]

thats a clever solution. i think that what youre saying is probably somewhat true. i think a lot of people are different though. Some can keep near perfect time with no click, some HAVE to have it and work great with it. Its all a matter of (and actually a big responsibility for the enginner) finding out what works best for the particular artist at the time. Lately Ive been feeling somewhat anti-click just because of the sterility it can impose.

[dokushoka]

When a guitarist can't hack it, and I try a click, clapping, tambo, clavs, etc and none of those things work, I get the drummer in there with him. I give him a stick and have him hit the guitarist on the back or the shoulder with it to keep time. The more the guitarist gets off, the more the drummer is allowed to hit him hard. Drummers tend to like this and it gets the job done quite nicely. Sometimes pain is good.

All of the sudden playing to a click sounds pretty good to them then.

[;ivlunsdystf]

(I am not a drummer) When I have kids I'm going to start them on drums because I have noticed that drummers with lots of experience are very versatile on other instruments. Frank Zappa started as a drummer, right?

[lee]

The more the guitarist gets off, the more the drummer is allowed to hit him hard

...uh, im talking about "recording", i think you have the wrong message board. i think youre looking for the "S&M" message board.

youre sick.

[joel hamilton]

I have used all kinds of stuff for this kind of thing, including a sequence of the song via MIDI (or reason these days) that simply blocks out the chords and has a little "lilt" built into it in a percussion track or something.

Gives the musiciians something to play with.... like when the guitar leans up on it in the chorus, or lays back in the verse (guitar is never behind), it still sounds "right."

I love harmonic clicks.

[Ryan Silva]

Funny thing, when I play electric guitar without a click I always stray, but when I play acoustic guitar I am a solid as can be. I think is has something to do with the resonance of the body under my arm. So now I always start tracking with acoustic (if no drums) even if it doesn't stay.

[dokushoka]

The more the guitarist gets off, the more the drummer is allowed to hit him hard

...uh, im talking about "recording", i think you have the wrong message board. i think youre looking for the "S&M" message board.

youre sick.

Oh man. Reading back my post, I now realize how bad that sounds.

[curtiswyant]

Sometimes a simple 4/4 drum beat is more useful than an annoying click track. My band records using a single headphone mix, so of course the click is CRANKED so the drummer can hear it...about makes me want to swear off clicks forever

[KennyLusk]

Sometimes a simple 4/4 drum beat is more useful than an annoying click track. My band records using a single headphone mix, so of course the click is CRANKED so the drummer can hear it...about makes me want to swear off clicks forever

As a guitarist I hate, despise and otherwise want to throw up on all click tracks. But as Curtis said, a simple drum beat from a machine or program works much better for me.

Damn the click track all to hell I say :ar15:

[Red Rockets Glare]

The guitar (especially lead guitar) is usually allowed to push and pull the tempo in my experience, and most guitarists are so used to that freedom that when they try to play to a click they can't.

[dokushoka]

Sometimes a simple 4/4 drum beat is more useful than an annoying click track. My band records using a single headphone mix, so of course the click is CRANKED so the drummer can hear it...about makes me want to swear off clicks forever

As a guitarist I hate, despise and otherwise want to throw up on all click tracks. But as Curtis said, a simple drum beat from a machine or program works much better for me.

Damn the click track all to hell I say :ar15:

I agree, too, and HATE tracking to a click. However, practicing with a click is an invaluable tool and learning to let a song breathe and play with more even meter is HUGE. If a band can do this naturally, then you can really get the compression and delays happening in the mix and get the speakers moving is nice, big pushes. Sometimes we have to do things that we "hate" to get a good result. I mean, unless you are just playing to appease yourself and not to make a record that someone would actually want to listen to...

[digitaldrummer]

so when the drummer gave clicks on the claveys he could feel the rhythm. and he nailed it.

may have also been a visual thing for the guitar player--assuming they could see each other--maybe he's more comfortable with "conducting" then the click. I know I've played live gigs before where I had to look at toes tapping and fingers on strings to make sure we were all together (cause I couldn't hear them)

[junkyardtodd]

Oh man. Reading back my post, I now realize how bad that sounds.

Bad is the new good. Didn't anyone tell you?

[Catoogie]

I hate the traditional 'click' track. It is really hard to groove to a "CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK" that's why I always have in addition to quarter note sidesticks, some sort of 16th note cabasa or shaker groove programmed. That way I can play between the two rhythms, helps me keep the meter nice and steady but it also allows me to groove by playing off and in between the two click tracks.