operator_tape,
I enjoyed your post and I'm REALLY intrigued as to how this fellow made studio monitors because I sure as hell would love to build some. Any possibility you could get some info/schematics/pictures from your friend?
Buying gear is meaningless.
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;ivlunsdystf
- ghost haunting audio students
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I endorse the gear addiction of people worldwide because it results in a vital and innovative gear-making industry which ultimately leads to a new Sweetwater catalog every quarter, which gives me great reading material to keep next to the toilet. The industry also sustains the very high-quality Tapeop magazine, among others. Also I sometimes even purchase nifty gear for myself.
The subject of the original post in this thread sounds like a pretty cool dude. What a fantastic mentoring opportunity.
The subject of the original post in this thread sounds like a pretty cool dude. What a fantastic mentoring opportunity.
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I'm Painting Again
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d
well, the problem is that some of us have no choice but to use sub-par equipment.
It's funny, because I hear people say this, but I've still had plenty of engineers and recordists snub their nose at the gear I've been forced to use in the past. Then they hear the results and are embarassed. I mean what the older guy said should be OBVIOUS. Most of what I'd consider to be the great productions and recordings are all at least 15-20 years old, so to me that says all I need to know about the way modern recording has gone. I can't cotton to snottiness about gear because it's arbitrary and even arguably classist. I won a songwriting contest a few years back in Williamsburg and everyone was saying that my song was by far the best produced as well. I recorded it on a casette four-track with 2 58s and some AT cheapo dynamics. It sounded warm and resonant and, well, like a record, whereas some people went into a studio for this contest, spent 800 bucks, and got a crap-ass recording with no character that didn't even sound particularly professional. I'm not saying this to brag, I'm saying that if my four-track recording can sound better than 10 other recordings made in studios, then it really says how much it's about creativity and ingenuity. Case closed.
It's funny, because I hear people say this, but I've still had plenty of engineers and recordists snub their nose at the gear I've been forced to use in the past. Then they hear the results and are embarassed. I mean what the older guy said should be OBVIOUS. Most of what I'd consider to be the great productions and recordings are all at least 15-20 years old, so to me that says all I need to know about the way modern recording has gone. I can't cotton to snottiness about gear because it's arbitrary and even arguably classist. I won a songwriting contest a few years back in Williamsburg and everyone was saying that my song was by far the best produced as well. I recorded it on a casette four-track with 2 58s and some AT cheapo dynamics. It sounded warm and resonant and, well, like a record, whereas some people went into a studio for this contest, spent 800 bucks, and got a crap-ass recording with no character that didn't even sound particularly professional. I'm not saying this to brag, I'm saying that if my four-track recording can sound better than 10 other recordings made in studios, then it really says how much it's about creativity and ingenuity. Case closed.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
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dokushoka
- buyin' a studio
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The reason this argument WILL provoke people is because there is a flip-side (and this is an attitude that a I notice frequently among tape opers).
Look through this thread (including the post directly above this one). There are frequent assumptions that people who have access to good gear rely too much on it and don't hear the song for what it is. That's bullshit. There are a lot of great engineers and producers that can do things to a production that would blow your mind. They could blow most people out of the water with shit gear, sure, but they like to get the best sounds possible, and often, that takes great gear. Does that make them a snob or invalidate their musicality?
Of course, in good hands and in good taste, "cheaper" gear can work. But don't make the mistake of thinking that a "real" studio with "expensive" gear is always going to be bad...
Furthermore, I am not saying that all "cheap gear" sucks. I mixed a song yesterday where a symetrix 501 was EASILY the best comp for the snare, and it won against a 2254e, 1176, Spectrasonics 610...
My point is this:
OF COURSE the driver matters. But put a good driver in a great car instead of a poor one, and you're going to get a lot more out of him.
Look through this thread (including the post directly above this one). There are frequent assumptions that people who have access to good gear rely too much on it and don't hear the song for what it is. That's bullshit. There are a lot of great engineers and producers that can do things to a production that would blow your mind. They could blow most people out of the water with shit gear, sure, but they like to get the best sounds possible, and often, that takes great gear. Does that make them a snob or invalidate their musicality?
Of course, in good hands and in good taste, "cheaper" gear can work. But don't make the mistake of thinking that a "real" studio with "expensive" gear is always going to be bad...
Furthermore, I am not saying that all "cheap gear" sucks. I mixed a song yesterday where a symetrix 501 was EASILY the best comp for the snare, and it won against a 2254e, 1176, Spectrasonics 610...
My point is this:
OF COURSE the driver matters. But put a good driver in a great car instead of a poor one, and you're going to get a lot more out of him.
w
Well, I can't argue with that. It's totally about the driver. And obviously most of my favorite recordings WERE done in real studios- just not very recently.
The thing I'm referring to more is the snotiness that I really have gotten many times from people about using cheap gear and gerry-rigging stuff. Like I must be stupid to think I can make something good with that, or something.
I'm saying all this, of course, as I'm currently in the process of upgrading everything I have.
The thing I'm referring to more is the snotiness that I really have gotten many times from people about using cheap gear and gerry-rigging stuff. Like I must be stupid to think I can make something good with that, or something.
I'm saying all this, of course, as I'm currently in the process of upgrading everything I have.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
e
You could sprinkle that stuff on a piece of cardboard and I'd still eat it.eeldip wrote:i dunno if this relates but i sprinkled some truffle oil on a bowl of chef boy-ar-dee beef ravioli the other day AND IT RULED.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
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Professor
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Yeah, it does seem like this discussion comes up pretty often though I suppose that's not so surprising. And it's not surprising since there is a lot of high-end gear out there that people see and read about but they can't afford, and so they buy something less expensive but "similar" in features or even specs, and feel they have to justify their purchase. Usually that justification centers around a sense of intellectual superiority at having 'seen through' the advertising and hype and purchased the $100 microphone while all those fools continue to chase after the $1000 microphone. And sometimes there is even a comment along the lines of, 'great engineers can do it with crappy gear' or perhaps something like, 'all the music I've heard in the last XX years is crap and it's because they all used expensive gear'. Usually that last comes from guys who are talking up their superior musicianship to what ever artist, band or entire genre they choose to despise.
But please, keep these ideas in mind...
This is about the most broad-based and friendly place to discuss music, recording & recording gear around and we acknowledge everyone pretty equally. There's no need to justify your purchase of low-priced or no-name gear around here. We accept all kinds.
Specific to this example: if that teacher doesn't believe in gear holding any importance, then why did he sell his living room for the U-87? Why not just purchase more Apex mics or another nice Chinese knock-off? Why the Mackie and not a Behringer, or something even cheaper? Why the Gadget Labs converters and not something cheaper? Obviously the gear matters to him at least on some level. Yes, he built his own monitors, but that doesn't mean he saved money. He may well have spent over $500 in parts when he could have easily spent $200 on cheap monitors.
And yes, great engineers can make great albums with crappy tools. But that doesn't mean that owning crappy tools makes you a great engineer, or that a true craftsman doesn't recognize the value of quality tools. Joel H. made a whole album without switching on an equalizer in tracking or mixing - which I dare say he wouldn't have been able to do if he owned nothing but a handful of crappy mics and a Behringer board. Now I know some guys might feel like great engineers if they can record a whole album with an SM-57 and then spend days tweaking the EQs, effects and overal mix to make the album sound good. But please believe that there are others who feel equally good about their skills when they can choose a microphone at tracking that provides the sound they want at mixing with much less fuss.
And as for the 'quality of music these days', it is exceptionally good. You may not like the artists or the bands or even the entire genre, but understand that music is a living art that grows and changes and no particular style will be embraced by everyone. Some folks stopped accepting new music after the mid-90s, others after the mid-70s, hell I work with a lot of jazz players that seem to think music stopped being written in 1950. But there are a lot of people who are out there making music of the 21st century and some of it is even being recorded on quality equipment.
-Jeremy
But please, keep these ideas in mind...
This is about the most broad-based and friendly place to discuss music, recording & recording gear around and we acknowledge everyone pretty equally. There's no need to justify your purchase of low-priced or no-name gear around here. We accept all kinds.
Specific to this example: if that teacher doesn't believe in gear holding any importance, then why did he sell his living room for the U-87? Why not just purchase more Apex mics or another nice Chinese knock-off? Why the Mackie and not a Behringer, or something even cheaper? Why the Gadget Labs converters and not something cheaper? Obviously the gear matters to him at least on some level. Yes, he built his own monitors, but that doesn't mean he saved money. He may well have spent over $500 in parts when he could have easily spent $200 on cheap monitors.
And yes, great engineers can make great albums with crappy tools. But that doesn't mean that owning crappy tools makes you a great engineer, or that a true craftsman doesn't recognize the value of quality tools. Joel H. made a whole album without switching on an equalizer in tracking or mixing - which I dare say he wouldn't have been able to do if he owned nothing but a handful of crappy mics and a Behringer board. Now I know some guys might feel like great engineers if they can record a whole album with an SM-57 and then spend days tweaking the EQs, effects and overal mix to make the album sound good. But please believe that there are others who feel equally good about their skills when they can choose a microphone at tracking that provides the sound they want at mixing with much less fuss.
And as for the 'quality of music these days', it is exceptionally good. You may not like the artists or the bands or even the entire genre, but understand that music is a living art that grows and changes and no particular style will be embraced by everyone. Some folks stopped accepting new music after the mid-90s, others after the mid-70s, hell I work with a lot of jazz players that seem to think music stopped being written in 1950. But there are a lot of people who are out there making music of the 21st century and some of it is even being recorded on quality equipment.
-Jeremy
If you put a great racecar driver in a Honda Civic, he'll still be a great racecar driver, but possibly limited by his car. If you put him into a finely crafted top of the line automobile, his talents will have no restraints. That's sort of how I see high quality gear in relation to music making. Granted quirky/low-fi gear has it's place in recording.
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joelpatterson
- carpal tunnel
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I think the food comparison is weak. You can't eat music.eeldip wrote:i think the race car analogy is weak. music isnt a race, isnt linear, isnt win lose, cant be timed etc....
i prefer food analogies. also food is about as fun to talk about as music.
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