rack tom mics

gregc · Post by **gregc** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:00 pm

Has anyone ever used the Shure Beta 98?

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/beta98ds.asp

They're supposedly designed just for toms. . .and i recall that Dave Weckl "endorsed" them many years ago in his earlier videos. . . (i was never able to find any). . .

I've been thinking of picking up a pair, but was curious if anyone had any real world experience. . . . .

Greg.

Dave Nutz · Post by **Dave Nutz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:36 am

gregc wrote:Has anyone ever used the Shure Beta 98?

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/beta98ds.asp

They're supposedly designed just for toms. . .and i recall that Dave Weckl "endorsed" them many years ago in his earlier videos. . . (i was never able to find any). . .

I've been thinking of picking up a pair, but was curious if anyone had any real world experience. . . . .

Greg.

i mixed a band live thatinsisted on using a 98s for snare. sounded awesome, but the positioning was finiky. wouldnt have worked any other way because the drummer was always drunk and only hit the snare about 50% of the time.
glad that was a short term gig.

Ethan Holdtrue · Post by **Ethan Holdtrue** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:50 am

subatomic pieces wrote:
Ethan Holdtrue wrote:
subatomic pieces wrote:why bother with gates on toms in a DAW?
Your kidding right?

With a good gate program you can do aloooot of things than would be almost impossable do to with editing away everything from the hits.
well.. then, that brings up two questions.

1. what is a "good gate program"? I still haven't found a good software gate.

2. what can you do with it that you can't do more accurately with editing?

1. Sonitus makes a good one

2. you can adjust the attack, lookahead, close, and fade for starters. Along with the overall mix level. If your on the ball you can emulate a effect similar to a slow compresser for things like drums. Personaly sitting there and zooming waaaay in and cross fading everything would drive me out of my mind.

jeddypoo · Post by **jeddypoo** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:07 am

drum editing drives me insane with tedium. I'd rather have a good gate in my outboard gear, but depending on the track and the kind of music, I've found gate plugins, even cheapo ones, to be effective before. It can be difficult to get them to sound natural, but I'm usually not one for hyper-realism, at least in my own productions. I don't think I've really used them too much for other people's stuff.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:48 am

All of those things are pretty simple for me to do in a DAW.

I guess it depends on how comfortable and fast you are with editing. but, to be honest, lately, I've been kind of digging the (minimal) amount of bleed on toms and not bothering with editing or gates.

I'll have to try the sonitus gate sometime, though.

jeddypoo · Post by **jeddypoo** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:03 am

It's not that I'm not capable of it, I just find it to be a totally joyless task. It CAN be handy, of course. I think when I have better rack tom mics, I'll probably be more apt to "Let It Bleed". Ha! "Let It Bleed"!

Ethan Holdtrue · Post by **Ethan Holdtrue** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:26 am

subatomic pieces wrote:I'll have to try the sonitus gate sometime, though.

I like there compressers too. They sound real clean, don't use up alot of CPU, and are very adjustable.

NU-TRA · Post by **NU-TRA** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:07 am

Anyone using the modded mk012? I wonder if it's worth modding mine.

Leopold · Post by **Leopold** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:33 am

NU-TRA wrote:Anyone using the modded mk012? I wonder if it's worth modding mine.

Hey V,
Eddie from Ebola here, welcome to the board. I use the MC012 all the time on toms, haven't modded mine but I have the article at home.

Here's a thread about the mod

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=30752

Eddie

NU-TRA · Post by **NU-TRA** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:42 am

Small world Eddie... I have four 421's but I really like the sound of condensers on toms... I have 2 sound room oktavas I'm gonna A/B them right now... I'm gonna play the whole kit to see if there's bleed...

V

Leopold · Post by **Leopold** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:42 am

NU-TRA wrote:Small world Eddie... I have four 421's but I really like the sound of condensers on toms... I have 2 sound room oktavas I'm gonna A/B them right now... I'm gonna play the whole kit to see if there's bleed...

V

I always get a bit of bleed no matter what but not to a point where it's a problem. Even since I got the MC012s and Beyer M201s I don't really use the 421 on toms with the exception on floor tom or on the beater side of the kick.
Do you have hyper caps, I'm curious as to how much of a difference it makes.
I have a CAD m179 that I tried on floor tom and it sounded really good as well.
E

thunderboy · Post by **thunderboy** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:22 pm

I often use the MK-012s with omni capsules/pads on toms - about one micrometer from the drum head. No gates necessary, but then this is live, not studio.

Other than that it's Audix D-2/4.

jt

NU-TRA · Post by **NU-TRA** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:52 pm

I just tested it... The bleed on the oktava is more musical than the 421... The bleed is smoother vs. trash canny on the high end... I use a beyer 201 on the snare with a beta 98 taped to it. I like it.. The i5 is good with something uderneath. I own a cad m179 as welll I like it on guitar cab and anything bright.. it's a smooth clear mic not like typical chinese condensers. The sound on the mic in hypercardiod mode with pad in on the toms is kinda 2 dimensional to me. too compressed...

I use a sm91 inside the kick and a RE20 outside...
toms have been 421's until now. I will sell one to get two more oktavas.

I use to own hyper caps for the oktava and didn't like them as much.

floid · Post by **floid** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:22 am

maybe a totally unrelated thought collection here, i'm just a schmuck who keeps trying the same things stubbornly, but seems like just a good overhead positioned somewhere behind - usu. an LDC - the kit, along w/ kick snare obviously, does some great things...then again, i'm just a garager who records w/ friends and all us hitters don't focus too much on the toms as compared to just nice basic coherence - more mics just makes me more headache, yeah? so if any concur or violently disagree with such modus operandi, please explain and justify...
and then conversely, for those worried about the bleed: don't i remember something, mebbe in the cobain journals, about cutting a hole in the bottom head and running your mic up inside the tom? never tried it, but then again i also like to run a tunnel out from the kick to give it more time to develop, micing inside the shell always seemed to result in too much click and the same might apply here...

NU-TRA · Post by **NU-TRA** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:50 am

My bands sound is very Devo influenced and is very tom driven... I like the sound of miced toms... I don't worry about phase for I take the time to position and use a phase tool if i can't fix it. For snare I use a beyer 201 with a Shure beta98 taped to it. We miced the kit up last night with the two oktavas on the rack toms... They sound killer! The mk012 made my tom sound like a tom and my 421's make my toms sounds like roto toms on a coated ambassador. A little plasticy... I've been using 421's for years... I'm gonna keep them around for when I record other bands and I can have a choice. Inside the kick I use a shure sm91 for the click and the EV RE20 about an inch outside the soudhole... I rarely eq except cut at aroud 250hz to get rid of mud. I blend the two mics together to get any variation i want.

Thanks

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