a diet for recordings

[red cross]

Great song. The only "problem" that stuck-out to me on first hearing was the low-end. Acoustic sounds too boomy/resonant. Then again, backing off the mic could lose that kinda "intimate" quality that goes really well with your voice. Maybe try the highpass (if ya have one) on yer mic, or try to roll off some of the lows with eq. The "thumb strum" is always nice, but if you want bright and sparkly you're just using the wrong technique then.

Personally, I think you're judging your own music too much by the sounds of other peoples' records. The "closeness" of the sound suits the song perfectly. Stop WORRYING about some damn perceived universal treble that only "proper" records are supposed to have. And redo that damn synth solo (how about a nice wall of melodic humming instead? ya got a good voice) willya...


Nice work!

[Derrick]

Since I've learned how to "hear" proper gain staging and bettered my mic techniques (and trained my ears more), I've gone back and used may new techniques and mics on my old 4 track to see how different the sound would be. Wow!! Sounded AMAZING! Air, high end, depth, space between instruments... all there.

Check your room, your mics, and your gain. I know your using an HD24, but the slaming tape/pre/etc. idea is not always a good character. The equipment has to be stuff that benefits this style.

Can you be more specific about what those "better techniques" entail? I mean, when you say check room/mics/gain, what exactly am I checking? I can tell you that I'm not clipping on any meters (HD24 or mixer).

Yes, the part of your post where you said that you 'feel like you need to get mic pre gain really high just to get acceptable levels to tape. But, the more you turn up the gain, the ?bigger? the sound gets (bigger in a negative way)'.

That tells me that you should try using your ears (not your meters) to tell you if you are getting too high at ANY of the gain stages you may have in the line. As an example, are you over powering the mic's circuits? Is the pre amp getting driven too hard? Is the pre amp driving the next thing in line (mixer? HD?) too hard? This may not be your exact situation, but this is how you need to think. Then you should also use your ears to tell you just how high to turn up that gain. Or if you need to pad that mic or piece of gear. Of if your mic gets over powered by the source. Again, even if this isn't what you are doing here, this is the mind set to get into. Why are you slamming tape if you are recording to HD? You notice a big difference in things sounding negatively "bigger" with increase of gain... turn it town to where it sounds good to you. Also a good point made above not to care about the way others sound... you may be a much needed refreshing different sound by creating your own thing.

As for mic placement, it's been said to try things and so forth... What I did was to read things here and elsewhere, look at how things are done by others in studios and shows, and ultimately try things and experiment for my self. Now I feel much more confident in getting sounds I want on a variety of instruments. Relating to you, I read up on numerous accounts of recording acoustic guitars. I found three or so great suggestions and the reasons (science) for why they seem to work. After experimenting, I can now say "hmmm... I'm getting too much or too little "X", let's try this". Read up on micing acoustic guitars and try messing with micing and paying attention to your gains (and how they all relate to one another).

Hope I wasn't blabbing nonsense.

[kayagum]

The only "problem" that stuck-out to me on first hearing was the low-end. Acoustic sounds too boomy/resonant. Then again, backing off the mic could lose that kinda "intimate" quality that goes really well with your voice.

More evidence that you are probably micing the soundhole, and need to find a different placement for your guitar mic.

I have the RNP and HD24 as well.... to what medium are you mixing down? Given that you're mixing off of headphones, you probably need to lay off the EQ, especially if you're cutting highs or boosting lows.

[;ivlunsdystf]

Lay off the EQ? Isn't this the guy that thinks EQ is cheating?

What about standing waves in the room? If there is boominess and it is a smallish room with reflective parallel walls/floor/ceiling, there's a possible answer to your woes. Blankets and foam pads on the walls will only mask the problem by eliminating flutter. Lower frequencies eat through blankets for breakfast!

I'd much rather track in a reflective room than a muffled room. Then at least you know what you're up against.

[I'm Painting Again]

there is not much besides the string slides with the guitar that is over 700Hz..you have to be micing the soundhole closely..is that right?

was this song done vocals and guitar at the same time?..I'm guessing no from what I hear and see with a meter..

the guitar is acting like a heavy anchor in this song it doesnt float the way you say(personally i think its kind of cool)..its thick in the low end and low mids..unbalanced from nature..most likely because your micing the sound hole and not getting the room and the neck in there..

try backing the guitar mic off and pointing it at the 12th fret to start move on from there..the neck (and room to an extent) makes a lot of the sound of a guitar 'specially the highs..


p.s. I'd like to say that your voice and song are beautiful and I'd like a record if you have one or when your done..i guess pm me about it..

[tsw]

Personally, I think you're judging your own music too much by the sounds of other peoples' records. The "closeness" of the sound suits the song perfectly. Stop WORRYING about some damn perceived universal treble that only "proper" records are supposed to have.Nice work!

Thanks everyone for saying nice stuff.

I'll try to respond to a few things.

For one, this dreamy high-end I keep imagining...it's not because I want to imitate someone else's sound. It's just that that's the way I hear music. It's the sound I want to make, the sound I hear in my head. That's all.

As for the acoustic guitar sound, I don't think I was micing the soundhole because I know that's generally considered sonic suicide. But it sure does sound like I was doing something wrong in the micing. Sounds like a wet, moldy refrigerator box in an alley. In the rain. With bums pissing on it.

I guess I could get more serious about using my HP filters. I have them on some mics, I have one on my Distressor, though I swear I can barely (if at all) hear it working.

In a lot of ways, you guys are corroborating what I already thought. I should focus on my songs more and leave the recording to someone else. But it's just so damn expensive!

Thanks. I love this place.
andy

[tsw]

I have the RNP and HD24 as well.... to what medium are you mixing down? Given that you're mixing off of headphones, you probably need to lay off the EQ, especially if you're cutting highs or boosting lows.

That song, I mixed to two tracks in the HD24 and then bounced that to 1/4" tape at 15ips just for fun. I can hear you all saying "THAT'S WHERE YOU LOST THE HIGH END, JACKASS!" and you're probably right, but a lot of songs I don't bounce to tape and they're still bloated as hell.

Oh, I don't mix in headphones. I monitor in them while tracking. I mix on monitors. Poor ones, mind you, but monitors.

[I'm Painting Again]

tape machines generally roll off above 15kHz though..your guitar has nothing over 700Hz..your vocals and the keys had info above that range..maybe its the mic and or preamp you used on this song?..its not giving you what you need perhaps..

I should focus on my songs more and leave the recording to someone else. But it's just so damn expensive!

maybe go to a studio and see what they use and how they do it(when they give you a sound you like)..then try to emulate that yourself(gear and techniques)..the more studios the better you can see things..but dont let it stop you from trying if its something you like..

[s00p3rm4n]

Another suggestion... record onto tape first, then dump into digital. That way you can truly identify what the problem medium is (tape, software, computer hardware, pres, etc. etc.).

Or!

Record a line-level output from your CD player of something you know the sonics of - a song you know, "Oh, the highs sound like that, the bass is supposed to sound like that," etc. Record onto the tape. Listen back. Record directly into the DAW. Listen back.

There are plenty of ways, if you have the patience to experiment (which, in this case, I'd recommend you develop since it's clearly troubling you)... you'll track down the culprit.

Best of luck!

[tintern]

not being familiar with an HD24 this might be a really stupid question but you're not accidentally recording to 16bit are you? i know that's like asking if the thing is plugged in but...

[tsw]

not being familiar with an HD24 this might be a really stupid question but you're not accidentally recording to 16bit are you? i know that's like asking if the thing is plugged in but...

No, I'm definitely going 24-bit. And, knowing me, it wouldn't be all that surprising if the thing weren't plugged in...

Actually, the 16-bit recordings I've done in the past have had plenty of high end (not that it's relevant or anything...)

[drumsound]

I just listened to the song about three times. I agree that it does sound dark and I also don't think it?s a bad thing. But you question is not about whether I like the vibe or not. So...

I agree that the thumb strum is creating a lot of the tone of the guitar. Try a few different pick weights. It seems like you play pretty softly, thus the need for more micpre gain. You're probably putting the mic closer, because you?re playing so soft. One way to deal with this is to use an omnidirectional mic. Omnis don't have proximity issues like cardioid and bi-directional mics (figure . Also some room tone might add a little sparkle that you're looking for. Did you double track the guitar? That will create a little natural chorus, which might be masking the highs. Try stereo micing one part instead of playing two.

For the vocal you might want to raise the mic. Point it at you forehead instead of you mouth. Try to make it a little off axis of you mouth too.

OT, Play up the noise/feedback whatever it is in the solo section and back off the "string section."

[joeysimms]

Here's a link to a song that highlights the problem I'm talking about. Stuffy, dead, no air, no light. The song is not so good, and what I try to pull off with a consumer Yamaha keyboard is downright embarrasing. Nonetheless...

http://www.garageband.com/song?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSkZFa1a2g

I like it just fine. To my ears it's none of those things you are describing above.. And RIGHT_ON with the so-called consumer yamaha keyboard - that part sounds awesome to me! I love cheap keyboards, and your part there is beautiful, it reminds me of something from Bee gees 1st.

Good job.

[tsw]

It seems like you play pretty softly, thus the need for more micpre gain.

Do you think this is a bad thing? Is it contributing to the "problem"? (at least I think it's a problem!).

One way to deal with this is to use an omnidirectional mic.

Could you recommend one? At the very least, I'd go out and rent it to see if it helps.

OT, Play up the noise/feedback whatever it is in the solo section and back off the "string section."

Maybe it's OT, but I'll take any residual arrangement advice I can get!

thanks,
andy

[;ivlunsdystf]

new strings lately? just another shot in the dark.