Help me clean up my MIDI routing please!

[cwileyriser]

OK, I've now got too much crap to be unplugging and replugging MIDI cables one at a time. I don't do much sequenced stuff - none really right now, but that's likely to change some, as I've finally started occasionally recording a few keyboard parts as MIDI tracks in ProTools so I can audition different sounds. I've got PT LE 5.2 on a Mac G4 OS9.

For MIDI gear, I have a Triton, a MicroKorg, an E-MU ESI4000 rack sampler, an Alesis SR-16, a few pieces of outboard FX gear that have MIDI in/thru (though I've never used the MIDI ins on them), and a Behrenger MIDI Foot Controller (got it used cheap and thought it might make patch changes quicker) and a WinXP PC that I use for soft synths (M-Tron - awesome!) with a E-MU0404 PCI card for output via S/PDIF to my Digi001.

Yeah, and right now when I want to do something with MIDI, I daisy chain the stuff, but usually it's just running a cable from the MIDI out of the Triton to the MIDI in on the PC or the sampler or whatever. But that's kind of stupid at this point.

So, what would those in the know suggest I use to get this under control? If there's a piece of gear that would help with MIDI routing and serve other functions as well (MOTU MIDI Timepiece??), that'd be cool, but I don't know enough about it to know what to look for.

Thanks for any help.

Chris

[apropos of nothing]

There's a couple of ways you could go.

One, and probably the optimal one for you at a guess, is a multi-port MIDI interface, such as the MOTU. In whatever you're using for sequencing (Protools?), you'll assign which port on the interface the track goes to. You've got five useful outputs, and a couple of useful inputs (Triton as a controller, Behringer foot controller for mods). I'd say you'd want an 8-in, 8-out. Note that when you hook them up, anything that's hooked to both an input and an output you're going to want to turn "MIDI local" off so that you're not double triggering a sound.

The alternate method (and the one I use) is a MIDI patchbay. In this realm there is really one clear choice, the Digital Music Corp MX-8. (I use another, but my routing needs are very simple, and it was dirt cheap. Had me my druthers, I'd be using the DM MX.)

Like I say, I think the multiport MIDI interface is where its at for you. The MOTU (I believe) can also be used independently as a patchbay, so it'd be a win/win.

[Professor]

MOTU products generally do not play well with others, and especially where ProTools is concerns since they are rivals. I believe there are only one or two MOTU interfaces that will work with something other than DP, and those are the very basic, MIDI only boxes.
But I may be wrong on the current state of things so it's worth checking.

I do believe that ProTools LE can utilize Digidesign's MIDI I/O which runs off of USB and provides 10 inputs and outputs. It may be for HD only, but I don't think so. Check the digi site to be sure.

Daisy chaining the gear is alright except you have to watch out for two things. 1- any piece of gear listening to "channel 1" will play the MIDI data it sees on channel-1 even if it's intended for another device. 2- MIDI delay caused by the slow baud-rate of the MIDI spec (it was developed in the late 70s or early 80s) increases to the point that after perhaps three devices it is very noticeable.

-Jeremy

[apropos of nothing]

MOTU products generally do not play well with others, and especially where ProTools is concerns since they are rivals. I believe there are only one or two MOTU interfaces that will work with something other than DP, and those are the very basic, MIDI only boxes.
But I may be wrong on the current state of things so it's worth checking.

Ugh. I just have to say driver conflicts suck. You'd think with something so basic as MIDI routing (31kbaud serial connection), a driver could be available to any program. Haven't used protools, so couldn't tell ya about that. I will say that the parallel-port MIDI Timepiece I have worked very well with all programs that I used it with on Windows, but that it took over the parallel port, so I could no longer use the parallel port for the zip-drive, even after the interface was removed.

But if this is the case, you're going to be wanting to look at Digi's site to see what, if any, multi-port MIDI interaces they are compatible with, and/or think about a MIDI patchbay.

[earl parameter]

id think that this should cover you in almost every respect.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/M ... -main.html

thats a port for every instrument you have and if you want to incorporate an effects box or controller then you can add it between the box and inst on a different channel with no difficulty, and it should be compatible with everything, as it was before (as far as i know) and digi now owns them. there are also older units that are cheaper, but pretty much the same. i don't know what was updated, but i think they use the same drivers so it can't be much.


http://cgi.ebay.com/MIDIMAN-USB-MIDISPO ... dZViewItem

[cwileyriser]

Thanks for the info so far.

What I think I understand now (and please correct me if I've got the concept wrong) is that if I'm happy with to use the Digi001 as my MIDI interface, then I probably just need a MIDI patchbay, which would be cheaper than buying an interface. Sound right?

[apropos of nothing]

Yes, as long as you're happy with only one MIDI port. The lovely thing about the multi-port MIDI interfaces is that usually each jack is independently addressable, meaning that you could have a full 16 midi channels for each of the instruments.

With a MIDI patchbay, you're only gonna get the one set of 16 MIDI channels coming out of the Digi 001, albeit route-able to any of y'r instruments without restringing cables.

capiched?

[earl parameter]

the reason i threw in the 4 port was because it would give you a chance to use a different channel for each of the instruments you can play with your outboard and some to spare. like the triton and the esi can actually play back 8 or more instruments each. correct? if you stick with just one port then you may have to change around your setup every now and then. i guess its the lazy way to go. but you really only need 2 ports to do that if you go with a patchbay versus an i/o.

i hope im not confusing you

[cwileyriser]

OK, I'm starting to get it now.

Thanks. I'm a MIDIot for the most part.... In the past if something required more effort than plugging in a MIDI cable and hoping it worked, I didn't do it. Now, I'm trying to do it right.

I see now that having the extra ports would be useful.

I'm fine with M-Audio stuff and appreciate the recommendation.

What about the Opcode Studio 5? Seems like those can be had pretty cheap, and Opcode's been around for a while.

This page helped me see in practical terms what you guys have said:

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/studio ... anual.html

Because I'm using OS9 and Pro Tools, I have to deal with OMS, and as I understand it the "O" in OMS = Opcode. Seems like that should be a pretty good indicator that I shouldn't have conflict problems running PT5 and the Opcode Studio 5 driver on my OS9 Mac, right? Is it safe to assume that the kinds of interfaces (for Macs) that we're talking about use relatively little processing power and RAM?

[earl parameter]

opcode as a company doesn't exist anymore. they went down a long time ago. you might have issues with finding drivers, if not now then later on. i think the thing about oms is that its just such a good basis to build off of that everyone still uses it. i could be wrong though, im just guessing.

i have no allegiance to m-audio at all. i just threw it up there as an option.

what about midi is still fuzzy for you? its pretty simple if its explained right and you can ask the right questions.

[cwileyriser]

It's not really that it's fuzzy - it's just a pain in the ass trying to do things on a jerry-rigged basis, I guess. I'd use MIDI a lot more if I had the routing and patches set up with presets for certain things, like sequencing in ProTools using the Triton as a controller, being able to switch easily between Triton sounds and other keyboard/sound module patches, so that instead of rerouting MIDI cables and pushing buttons and digging into screen menus on hardware, I can just push a button on an interface or click something on the computer, or step on a foot pedal and things end up the way I want them (except for scrolling through sounds on the sound module or whatever to audition sounds).

[earl parameter]

having that option of scrolling while a sequence is playing will change the way you work. just hunt around until you find something in your price range. you know that you can do it now if you just run the triton and the esi right (maybe more). midi in the esi, go out of the thru into the triton and then out of the tritons out and in to the computer. set up the esi to use channels 1-8 and the triton on 9-16 or visa versa. in the order of the instrument banks have each inst set to the channels you?ve designated and not to omni and your pretty much fine. shouldn't be any issues other then getting the instruments set internally. then in PT if your 9th track ( for example) is a midi track and you want to trigger the 7th sound bank on the esi just send out channel 7 and that will be the only thing playing.

like professor said when you use more then 3 insts in a chain or even with really long cables is when you will have latency issues.

just take your time and make sure its the right device for you and that it will work for a few years at least. especially if its used, check for driver availability. ive had this happen where a company (opcode) went out of business and no working drivers were ever made again (thats arguable i know ). to get my 8port/se running again id have to go back to win95 and have a true SPP printer port. $500+ gone and this is why i hate gibson ( they bought opcode and let it die).

[tjcasey1]

I just connected my MOTU Express MT (8 in, 8 out) to my new iMac (actually one of the $750 refurbished ones from Apple). I haven't even installed DP yet. I ran the MOTU midi interface software for OS X (which I have to learn, now stepping up from OS 9.2.2), opened up Garageband (which comes with the iMac) and started playing their way-cool sounding grand piano soft synth. It worked like a charm.

Doesn't get easier than this. The MOTU interfaces also work with Windows (go look at their site, www.motu.com). I originally bought one to get rid of all these damn midi thru connections, and it worked right from day one. And it works standalone as well.

Both my Mac and PC friends have purchased m-audio stuff and have had problems getting them to work consistently.

[cwileyriser]

Would it be a better idea to run a MIDI interface off of my XP PC (which isn't doing much except running softsynths) instead of my Mac, which is pretty heavily burdened with ProTools as it is? The Mac and PT work fine, but the less other stuff running in the background the better. Also, this should eliminate the worry of driver conflicts with PT.

[tjcasey1]

Sounds like it'd be worth a try, although MIDI data isn't really that huge (compared to audio) and shouldn't really slow anything down. Buy an interface that has drivers for both platforms and give it a shot.