Mix a home project through an SSL SL6000E, is it worth it?

[flail]

I did a cut and paste of this from my post on gearslutz. give it a read and let me know what you guys think.

I just learned that a studio here in town has a Solid State Logic SL6000E console. I guess it's the only SSL in the state. Their day rate including an Engineer is around $600. I am recording at home using a digi002r and I am pretty happy with the results. The part I am un-happy with is the mixes. I not only do not have the room to mix well but the talent is lacking. Given the fact that I think the whole project can be mixed in a day, is this worth the effort and money in your opinion? Will the SSL make that much of a difference? $600 bucks is around $75 an hour, would it be better to find a $50 an hour studio without a SSL and save the $$$? I realize that this is subjective. My music is a range between acoustic singer songwriter (think Steve Earle/Ryan Adams) to more rock/pop (think R.E.M./acoustic Pearl Jam). I am kind of excited about hearing the result of the hyped up SSL but I don't want to be let down either ( I am not looking for a miracle here). Thanks for your opinions.

[xonlocust]

the ssl in and of itself means nothing, it's all about the person operating it.

if you like what that person does, go for it. if not, find someone who's work you like and let them operate on whatever they operate on.

[jmoose]

So I guess your talking about the Blasting Room huh?

Looks cool, I think I even talked to those guys once a long long time ago about whatever and I probably wouldn't hesitate to make a record there if the shop was suited for what I needed to do.

What I question is what you're hoping to get out of it?

For starters, the console and all this equipment...in & of its self does NOTHING. It's all about the driver. The Blasting Room is really well known for making punk & hardcore records, not for REM stylee college jangle rock records. That's cool and 100% valid...but if you want to best serve your music, you should find a person who does good work with that style of music rather then shopping around based on gear & rates and winding up somewhere that might not be right for you based on convienence.

Regardless of where you end up mixing, you need to allow sufficient time in order to net good results. You said you think it can all be mixed in a day...that's probably not realistic unless you're talking about a total of two or three songs. Typically most guys will crank 2-3 tunes off the desk in a day...sometimes more, sometimes less depending on what things sound like & how (not)well organized a project is when it comes in.

Sure, you can totally bang out 10 mixes in a day but why invest the money if you can't the time to craft each mix into something that's worth listening to?

Ok, so you realize that your mixes are lacking...that's cool. Looking for a mix AE is valid but you need to allow for the time to build a mix and make it come to life. That can happen ITB or it can happen on an analog desk...the key elements are time & the person who's doing the thinking & knob turning, aka the mix AE.

Without the extra time, you'll have the equivalent of a 'rough mix' but just some other dudes version rather then yours.

If you're looking for a mix engineer there are LOTS of guys who can do remote sessions, myself included. You send us a DVD with the multi-track files of all your tunes on it, and we can mix 'em and upload "in-progess" mixes for you to listen to and advise changes on. When it's all done you get the analog masters, DVD, CDs with broadcast wave files...whatever that person/company is delivering to you as a finished master. Hopefully it's analog tape or broadcast wave files, they seems to be the new "standard" and I personally wouldn't accept anything other then open reel tape or bwaves.

The consoles do nothing.

The person operating them is what the "hype" is all about.

Lots of choices to consider...

[flail]

reposted from gearslutz


I guess I thought that there would be some tone, sonic, stereo width (insert quality here) benefits to doing this. I absolutely understand that in the real world the quality of the engineer and the quality of the recordings in the first place pays the bills. I like the songs, I like how the recordings sound I don't like my mixes. And yes, I think that given the amount of instrumentation (there is only drums on a few songs) and the majority is acoustic guitar, vocals and percussion, I can have it mixed in a day. Now will I be happy with the end result? Well, I have found that as I record at home what was cool yesterday sucks today and the good/bad thing is, is that I can fix it. Giving up some control and being forced to make decisions is gonna help me get this thing going.

Thanks guys, keep the thoughts coming

[chris harris]

I'd much rather have someone who's done mixes I've heard and that I like mix my record on whatever they use, than have some stranger who normally mixes punk/hardcore try to mix a bunch of acoustic songs in one day, just because of a piece of gear.

so, the short and easy answer for you is NO. The SSL will ABSOLUTELY NOT be worth the extra money if you're just going to force someone who rarely ever works on music like yours to crank out an album's worth of mixes in a day.

that should really be one of the first lessons that you learn. If you think that a whole album can be mixed in a day, by someone who's unfamiliar with the tracking sessions, you're being INCREDIBLY unrealistic.. If you ever have any intention of doing this for a living, you'll be endlessly frustrated with people like you who don't have a realistic grasp on what it REALLY takes to realize the potential of a mix.

I can mix an entire album in a day... but, only if it's a project that I tracked, and tracked in such a way that most parts in each song come up on the same faders on the board and I'm just having to make tweaks on each song.

$600/day to mix an album with an experienced mix engineer, is really not very expensive at all (depending on the conversion and outboard that they offer)...
if it seems like a lot of money to you, then you're better off looking at other options rather than pressuring some dude to make your pile of home recorded tracks into a great album in one session.

[soundguy]

have you heard what an SSL sounds like, in person, instead of trusting the hype about what you read on the internet?

There are plenty of us who wouldnt mix a rock record on an SSL for free, let alone pay money to do it.

If you know the consoles and love thier sound, go for it, but if youve never heard one, you may be horrified at what you hear compared to where your expectations are. If you are paying money, get what you want. Planes fly to cities every hour that have any console you'd want to work on, and in todays environment, for affordable rates.

dave

[flail]

Thanks everyone. I know that an engineer is essential for the mix. And I know that the console is not a magic bullet. This is not one of those "I want it to have that "neve" or "ssl" sound. I merely was wondering if the engineer was the guy I wanted (I have heard mixes come out of this studio) and yes it is the blasting room, Would it be worth the extra money. I know another guy here who basically mixes ITB and he is 45 an hour. So, not to start another painfull ITB sucks debate, that is what I am saying here.

[drumsound]

When I'm in these situations as an engineer I offer one song as a teat. If the client likes it and wants to use they pay me for my time. If they want I will mix the rest of the record. If they don't think what I'm adding is the right thing, then its a no harm no foul situation. See if these engineers are willing to do this.

I'd be happy to offer the same deal to you.

[joelpatterson]

the ssl in and of itself means nothing, it's all about the person operating it.

if you like what that person does, go for it. if not, find someone who's work you like and let them operate on whatever they operate on.

[wwittman]

It's simple math...

if the SSL mix costs you $600 more, you need to determine: does the SSL mix MAKE you more than $600 more in sales?

it's that simple.

If it doesn't make you more money, then it's not, by definition, "worth it"

[soundguy]

It's simple math...

if the SSL mix costs you $600 more, you need to determine: does the SSL mix MAKE you more than $600 more in sales?

it's that simple.

If it doesn't make you more money, then it's not, by definition, "worth it"

wow, I was going to say something snide and nasty and realize that this is the exact reason why so many records with the potential to sound amazing sound lifeless because they were mixed on an SSL which somoene was convinced had a more commercial sound and could make more money.

Thank god not everyone puts these kind of economics into their mixing decisions with some folks still electing to chose the mix that SOUNDS the best above all else.

Could you imagine if electric warrior was mixed on an SSL? Would anyone in 2006 care about that? Shit. Is that worth it?

Sometimes you just have to think about your legacy.

dave

[justhitthebutton]

I think its funny, yet completely repulsive that almost everyones post mentions something about the blasting room and its engineers are more suited or are more familiar with punk/hardcore. its funny because its true, but its repulsive that youre thinking someone who can make amazing punk/hardcore records.(amazing in that the sounds are all there and sound perfect and the quality is top notch) can only do this kind of music... no other genre. ive been in punk bands, metal bands. hardcore, indie, post hardcore, pop. pop punk. and currently i am teaching myself mandolin and bluegrass. do you not think i will be able to do that just because i have a non-bluegrass background?
btw, wasnt drag the river recorded and mixed at the blasting room? an alt-country band whose members work at the blasting room. yep, they are and were.
www.dragtheriver.com

[@?,*???&?]

It depends on who is doing the mixing, but yes, you very well could end with a different result.

I've done great work on an SSL. I can still do great work on an SSL. I do great work in Pro Tools too. No two bands I've worked with sound alike nor do their records. Why? Because the band is the magic. There is little I can do to change the sound of the band unless I get into re-writing their songs.

When you work on an SSL you are likely working with someone who has been doing this for some period of time. Now, everyone has Pro Tools, but most have never worked on an SSL or even stepped foot in a well-tuned control room. Likely, whoever you have doing your mix for you will either know the room or have worked on one many, many times before.

Dave's comments aside, the SSL E-Series is the mix console of doom. These boards sound fantastic and always have. If it's been well-maintained, this could lend a great character to your mix. Expect many things to be exposed about your material and how it was recorded. Likely, you'll hear some things in detail that you've never before out of your sounds.

Mixing an album in a day can be done, but allowing 4 to 6 hours per mix would yield and even stronger result.

Oh yeah, and mix to tape too.

[flail]

btw, wasnt drag the river recorded and mixed at the blasting room? an alt-country band whose members work at the blasting room. yep, they are and were.
www.dragtheriver.com

Dang, your right. My band and Drag The River both play Lucky Joes here in Fort Fun. I like them a lot.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but the best response I have got was from Wittman. The economics must dictate. And all of you who don't like SSL I get it, you don't like SSL and I know an engineer is key, I know the blasting room does punk, I know an SSL is not god, I know I know I know... My question is....If I as an artist like the Engineer (I love the drag the river records) If I don't mind not recooping the extra money through sales, would you do it? or am I better off spending the extra dough on a hot model on the cover? (that last statement is tongue n cheek)

[dynomike]

If you like the engineer, cool. If you like the records coming out of there, cool. Obviously the sound of an SSL is no problem for you. I wouldn't know, I'll be honest.

I just wanted to point out in terms of economics that while a professional (albeit rough) mix is gonna get you closer to where you wanna be, you (and the mix engineer) will probably still be expecting mastering afterwards. Mastering a full length album at a mastering studio of similar quality? I'd expect to spend about the same as your day of mixing. If this part of the budget does get squashed, don't rule out remote mastering - I know some people on this board do it well, and I've had good experiences with Ryan Mills (www.littlekingstudios.com).. he's quite affordable for his experience and the gear he has now at his own studio. At the time I worked with him at Joao's (www.joaocarvalhomastering.com) but he has a nice enough setup of his own now I wouldn't hesitate to go that route for the budget issues.

Not to complicate things too much - but you can get return tix to L.A. or San Fran from Denver for like $200 if you time it right, and you'll have a whole whack of studios to choose from, so don't think that you only have this one option.