Mix a home project through an SSL SL6000E, is it worth it?

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:22 am

if you like other mixes that they've done and you aren't too worried about spending the extra $$$$, then what's the dilemma?
I guess I don't get it.

sure, $600 is a lot to spend in a day. but, it's not at all unusual to spend that much for a really good engineer in a really good studio.

I think that the thing that you should be worried about the most is the thing that you seem to be worried about the least. and, that's the fact that you're going to be forcing the guy to crank out a whole album's worth of mixes, of songs he's never heard and wasn't involved in tracking, in one day.

that SHOULD be the dilemma. how good of a mix can that guy do on the SSL in one day, versus what you or someone cheaper can do with fewer time constraints?

if you're waiting to hear someone say that for $600 you'll get the best possible mixes with no regrets, you're wasting your time.

Fletcher · Post by **Fletcher** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:35 am

Why people work on SSL Consoles?

OK... we've established that it ain't the gear it's the engineer... we've established that the sound of an SSL isn't the key to sales utopia... so why are these damn things so highly touted?

Well, they're big and expensive. When you see one it has a sea of knobs and a TV screen in the middle. They look complicated as all get out which means that the operator of such a tool must be highly trained and highly skilled rocket surgeon!!

The fact of the matter is that SSL desks do two things better than damn near any other desk in the world of music production... and neither of them is "sound better".

The two things SSL desks do better than damn near any other desk is 1) Automation; and 2) "recalls.

If you have a product that requires a ton of automation... from a ton of level rides to a bazillion mute "on/offs" then an SSL is one of the most pragmatic tools for this kind of production. Yes, there are other desks [and automation packages] that have these kinds of automation functions and more... [which on a 4000 & 6000 series is "mute and fader"], but SSL's automation is the easiest to program and the first to have installed "total recall" [which I fucking hate with a blue passion... if you didn't get the fucking mix right the first time, why try to start from that point when you do it again... but I digress]. There are also dynamics built into the desk so you can rely less heavily on outboard gear [and paper "recall sheets"].

On the 9000 [j and k] desks you can automate pretty much every function on the desk from sends turning on and off to [IIRC] the dynamics turning on and off.

The problems come in when people overuse the dynamics section. The SSL compressor sounds [on a good day] like a DBX 160XT, and while the gates are pretty benign... it's still the same VCA in the signal path as the compressor which makes things sound a bit thinner and grainier than most of us would like.

The bitch of the beast with an SSL is that you have the power to not only overcompress, over EQ and over scrutinize every aspect of the music... but most folks seem to have a propensity to employ that power in ways that are not necessarily complimentary to the music. The entire 80's production sound can almost single handedly be attributed to the fact that SSL desks gave people the ability to overuse the technology... which unfortunately created a "time stamp" for the music produced on these desks... much like the obsessive editing and pitch correction bullshit has placed a "time stamp" on most of the modern productions I've heard in the past couple years.

I hope this is of some assistance in the formation of your decision

Peace.

joelpatterson · Post by **joelpatterson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:24 pm

And even if it isn't--it was a great post! You gotta think about your legacy, Fletch.

soundguy · Post by **soundguy** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:56 pm

yeah, sometimes you do.

x-no-archive?

woops.

dave

robmix · Post by **robmix** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:11 pm

Jeff Robinson wrote: Dave's comments aside, the SSL E-Series is the mix console of doom. These boards sound fantastic and always have.

That's a comment I never thought I'd read, anywhere. The E-series has long been heralded as being pretty piss poor sounding. Not that great records haven't been mixed on it, but you'll usually see engineers jumping through hoops with outboard gear and every trick in the book to minimize the signal path. I've mixed great stuff on them but it would not be my first or even second choice today.

bobbydj · Post by **bobbydj** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:26 am

joelpatterson wrote:And even if it isn't--it was a great post!

soundguy · Post by **soundguy** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:51 am

robmix wrote:you'll usually see engineers jumping through hoops with outboard gear and every trick in the book to minimize the signal path.

that pretty much sums up the reality with all this crap. If your mix isnt good its because the mix engineer is incompetent not becuause the gear is whatever it is. A good engineer will be able to make something with the potential to sound good, sound good, if he knows what hes doing. The console either makes this process easier for you or harder. Given that any given console has a very particular sound, you would be wise to select the type of desk to mix on based upon the way you want your record to sound so that you can have the console work FOR YOU, TOWARDS your goal. Too many people run towards chip consoles and then spend all their time trying to make them sound like they have the depth and sound stage of a discrete console. Sure you can do that, spend hours working it out, OR you can just chose the right console out of the gate, turn it on and have all those hours of work just done for you by proxy of powering the console on in the first place...

You could probably drive a monster truck at a formula one race if you wanted I guess. Every IC you run through makes your shit smaller and smaller and smaller. Yet people turn to these consoles with the hopes of having bigger sounding records. Unfortunately hope does little to effect the slew rate of a 5534 or its cumulative effect after your kick drum has to needlessly pass through 42 of them before it leaves the console.

dave

Recording Engineer · Post by **Recording Engineer** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:24 pm

flail wrote:
justhitthebutton wrote:My question is....If I as an artist like the Engineer (I love the drag the river records) If I don't mind not recooping the extra money through sales, would you do it? or am I better off spending the extra dough on a hot model on the cover? (that last statement is tongue n cheek)
You want to go to this or that studio with this or that engineer because you like the work of their certain past project(s)... The real question is: Do you have the time=budget for the engineer to get just as "great-results" as they did (what you love) in their past project(s)?

From what I tell from your posts, probably not!

justhitthebutton · Post by **justhitthebutton** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:13 am

i dont know why it has me quoted in the above post....but i never said that. i guess you edited it and it still had my quote and then his reply. it should say :flail wrote:
just clearing my name. haha i mean things up

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:19 am

robmix wrote:
Jeff Robinson wrote: Dave's comments aside, the SSL E-Series is the mix console of doom. These boards sound fantastic and always have.
That's a comment I never thought I'd read, anywhere. The E-series has long been heralded as being pretty piss poor sounding. Not that great records haven't been mixed on it, but you'll usually see engineers jumping through hoops with outboard gear and every trick in the book to minimize the signal path. I've mixed great stuff on them but it would not be my first or even second choice today.

That's a comment I never thought I'd read, anywhere. I'd take an SSL mix over doing a Pro Tools (in-the-box) mix anyday.

flail · Post by **flail** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:30 pm

I see that many people are chiming in and I really have been considering everyone's take. Thanks to Fletcher for the insight to the console, I really didn't know about any of that. After further thought, I guess I have come to a couple of conclusions. You guys who said it are right, I'm gonna have to spend more time and money. I am sure that I want to mix it analog to tape. I'm not so sure that the SSL and this Engineer will be the best fit. I never really thought to send the stuff out to other engineers in other cities. I am going to look at that option. I may have to rethink the project budget and all that. This really goes against my way of doing things. I always just booked studio time and went in and busted butt for a great performance went home and called it good. Now that I am doing solo work at home without any other input, well, it changes the playing field...and I don't know if I like it.

To the person who said that he would take a mix on an SSL over pro tools any day, well that was the response I thought I would get from everyone....I learned that this is not the Consensus. Thanks again everyone, you guys rule.

robmix · Post by **robmix** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:06 pm

Jeff Robinson wrote: Dave's comments aside, the SSL E-Series is the mix console of doom. These boards sound fantastic and always have.

That's a comment I never thought I'd read, anywhere. I'd take an SSL mix over doing a Pro Tools (in-the-box) mix anyday.

Who said anything about ITB ? I just said it wouldn't be my first choice . . . .

snuffinthepunk · Post by **snuffinthepunk** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:59 pm

I've heard experienced pros say that they'd like to mix on an SSL, but the same ones have said that the SSL has a very "clean" sound, as in it doesn't alter the sound of the recorded tracks much at all. So, really, it's the mixer's preference to use an SSL because they like the way it works. Running tracks through the SSL won't make your music sound better. Like many people here have said, it's the operator who will make your music sound its best. Don't go to a studio just because it has an SSL, go because their work sounds good and the engineers know what they're doing. Heck, I've made albums sound 100% better on a roland digital multi-track just by knowing how stuff works. Go with the guy (or girl) that knows how to use the tools that he/she has very well. SSL is just a label, man. Lots of people like it, but lots of people can also make a record sound good without one. =)

wwittman · Post by **wwittman** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:30 pm

I think that SSL's have a very definite sound... they'r enot "neutral" at all!

What they are generally is thin and shallow sounding.

I tend to agree with Fletcher that it's the recall and the sheer size of them (there are very few huge GOOD desks) that sold them.

But whatever you think the reasons are, it's about what it DOES, not what it sounds like.

Which is why so many people I know roll around laughing at the idea of an SSL channel strip plug-in!
Hilarious.

bobbydj · Post by **bobbydj** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:22 am

All thood for fought.

Message Board

Mix a home project through an SSL SL6000E, is it worth it?

Who is online