mastering help

[Mark Alan Miller]

Of course, above all, I think art/music should 'get out there' as that is generally the intention of its creation. And if the intention in simply to get it 'out there' with no hopes or expectations other than the people its directly given to, or happen to stumble upon it, being the only ones who hear it, then sure, get it out as quickly an inexpensively as possible...
But if the intention is even remotely above that: for people to want to seek it out, for it to be 'competitive' (i.e. get on the radio, even on 'local shows', or to get press, even 'local press') then I think its really counter-productive to not take it as far as possible.

Does that mean you have to spend $500-$1000 or more on mastering? Heck no. I know of one guy locally who does a pretty bang-up job and recommend him for lower budget stuff as an option. No one's been dissatisfied! I also (I think I mentioned this, as did Tony) do quick mastering in a different room than my main studio for such situations. $150-$300 isn't a bad expectation for such a job, and, while maybe not quite as good is if someone who masters every day in a dedicated space could do, it's A) pretty darn great and B) certainly better than not doing it at all for most clients. (And I've had some MEs who I really trust and respect check my work, and they all approve of it, I'm proud to say. )

However, when shopping for 'budget' mastering (or any mastering for that matter) hearing examples of the person's work is crucial in picking them, if you don't have other means to trust them (recommendations from others that you really trust, or an existing relationship with that person, for example...)

I think it is worth repeating that it costs nothing to try and do DIY mastering for yourself, so give it a shot if the budget's tight! But try to do it in a different room than the one you mixed in, and compare your work often to records you really love, and have as many people you trust listen and critique it, and stuff like that. And if it comes out great, well, super! But please try and be open to the possibility that it might not, for whatever reason.


I don't think the average consumer is any less savvy than one from 10 or 20 years ago. And by that I mean they're not very savvy when it comes to technical details of music - but I do think that (at the risk of repeating myself) there's even more people making and releasing music than every before, making it even more crucial to make it sound the best it can if the intent is for it to try and stand out from this huge pack. And I really think that the average consumer hears the difference in some subtle way, without knowing it. Not to mention, again, if the intent is to get someone who is a little more savvy to pay attention to one record over another...

Does the average person really have a priority of song over sound? Sure! But great song with great sound will beat great song with so-so sound, and the consumer won't know why, but they will form preferences accordingly. And yeah, these are all pretty sweeping generalizations on my part, too.


I don't think that good mastering 'changes' the 'art' away from the intent of the artist, but merely enhances and helps deliver the art.


Also, I think that, like it's been said here before, sometimes good mastering requires not changing something. And sure, sometimes maybe there will be a set of 10 song that when strung together on a CD sound perfect as-is after mixing, with no tweaking whatsoever to any of them. But I think that's really really uncommon, that something can't be improved by a little professional look-see.


Just some more thoughts...

[majortom]

You know, I'm learning a lot more about those of you out there that do this job. That's a good thing.

Yeah, Duh...Film, and yeah, a band of more than one...I guess these are examples of art you're not fully in control of, I just never thought of it quite that way.

The part I left out in all of this stuff that LEE started was I also have a project and have been having that same questions/wonderings. MARK, I would hire you just based on your last post, it's just nice to hear the full spectrum come out that the artist could do it and possibly get great results.

I have not questioned for a minute that a person who knows this field can be an artist themselves. I live in colorado and near Air Show Mastering, I've hung out there and been very impressed, but also had it impressed upon me that for anything to be "professional" that this MUST be done, which I just can't fully agree with, but wow it sure looks pretty when it's all pumpin and lit up!

[lee]

MARK, I would hire you just based on your last post

i was thinking the same thing. i think that that was a fine way to finish this topic.

[Landon]

You're right Mark. I'll try to convince the band to get the album mastered when the time comes. $200-300 split 5 ways doesn't sound too bad.

Landon

[herodotus]

One of the BEST arguements I've heard for having 'pros' work on your music all around was made by a major market radio programmer & major lable A&R mook a few years ago when we were on a recording panel with a few other guys at an indie music conference;

"If you don't care enough to have your music mastered & handled by professionals, why should I care about it?"

Not to be a jerk, but what if the 'you' here is Beethoven?

Would you really not see the value in the music because the recording was amateurish?

Some music has intrinsic value no matter what the production values.

In fact I would go as far as saying that if the music isn't good enough to shine through a crappy recording then it probably isn't worth making a good recording of anyway.

Not that 'industry pros' give a shit about music or anything.

[jmoose]

Not to be a jerk, but what if the 'you' here is Beethoven?

Would you really not see the value in the music because the recording was amateurish?

Some music has intrinsic value no matter what the production values.

In fact I would go as far as saying that if the music isn't good enough to shine through a crappy recording then it probably isn't worth making a good recording of anyway.

Not that 'industry pros' give a shit about music or anything.

Some of the pros (probably more then you'd think!) at the indie level anyway, really do care about music and the quality of it.

There have been MANY artists over the years who had great musical intent and great songs...but got too involved & lost in the DIY ethic when really, they could've moved their careers much further ahead with the help of good production.

Like Mark said so well...a great song with great sound & production will beat a great song with so-so or just plain bad sound & production.

After a certain point it has NOTHING to do with seeing & hearing the value of the music, but it depends on what you're trying to do with it.

If it's your career, then it's gotta be good & not come off as amature hour. On the flip side, if you're making music for yourself and some friends...handing out one or two dozen CD's and have no commercial or career goals & intentions, then it can sound like you did it yourself & nobody's really gonna' care.

Besides, Beethoven was a pro.

Do you really think he didn't care about his music, who played it or how it was documented?

If he didn't, then he wouldn't be relevent today!

[Mark Alan Miller]

Landon-
I'm glad you're considering it seriously - it could give your record a little more of a fighting chance to "compete"...

But don't just go with anyone who says they can 'master' on the cheap like that. Like I said before, you really gotta hear their work and like it, or have a great recommendation from someone you trust who knows what you're after.

Good luck - and keep us posted with how you do!

[majortom]

LEE

Maybe you missed it in my earlier post, say a bit about these recordings; where did you do them, gear, mixing etc...

Again, a really informative post with no one talking crap, pretty cool.

[Landon]

Landon-
I'm glad you're considering it seriously - it could give your record a little more of a fighting chance to "compete"...

But don't just go with anyone who says they can 'master' on the cheap like that. Like I said before, you really gotta hear their work and like it, or have a great recommendation from someone you trust who knows what you're after.

Good luck - and keep us posted with how you do!

Noted. Thanks for the good advice. Have anyone to reccomend in the Santa Barbara/Southern California area? We don't even have all the songs recorded yet, so it'll probably be about 6 months before we need it done realistically.

Landon

[audiogeek1]

She thought it seemed strange that an artist would let thier work be "changed" by another person, she asked "does'nt that somehow make it someone else's wok in the end??"

Yeah, I think this is definitely an interesting topic. I have conversations all the time about what art is with a friend who makes films. Film, by the way is an example of a medium where your art is rarely completely your own. I wonder if there is some process that films go through after editing that is similar to mastering?

It is weird though, collaborating with so many different people and trying to share the same artistic goal. It's the same with starting a band as it is with working with a producer and engineer and mastering engineer I guess. It's really hard to get everybody going towards the same goal, but when you can do it, the result is really phenomenal. The other four guys in my band add so many things that I would never have thought of, and we've gotten to the point where everyone can have a similar enough vision. I think it should definitely be the same way at every stage of the process, including mastering.

Going back to the painting thing though, your friend is right, it's a completely different way of doing things. That's why I've got a side project where I have complete control over everything. With music, that can have good results sometimes, but I like to have both going at the same time because it works better for some songs than others. It'd be interesting to see what different kind of collaborations painters could come up with that would be similar to a band in music. I guess any art display could be thought of as a whole, in which case there are often collaborations between artists to that degree.

Landon

To answer the artists question she is displaying her work in potentially hundreds of places at the same time all with different lighting to show off the art and potentially behind tinted glass so you can't show the colors correctly. It is being displayed in a controlled environment where everyone who views it has the same look. If everyone who liked your music could listen to it in the same room it was mixed then mastering would not be needed. A true pro will not alter your art they make it better so that it will be a better portrayal of your art in a lesser situation or an even better situation.

For film it goes through a color correction which is just like mastering. It matches scenes colors one from another. Gives you a flow to the piece as opposed to having each cut look different. It would be a bit unnerving if you cut to a closeup and the skin color of your actor is now bright red instead of a natural tone. Also they can resize the scene to change how it comes out on the screen. All of this is done with the director/producer involved. They are not the technician they have a pro do it.

Just like Mastering someone who understands what it will sound like on the 3" clock radio speaker should be someone that masters your CD. There is nothing worse than getting a cd from a band that had to do everything themselves and it sounds horrible on your system. Makes me feel really bad for that band because they were to shortsided to actually spend a little money on a pro to do a proper job. Not changing their music but enhancing their music. As a consumer I should not be able to tell who mastered a cd because they have a typical stamp. This is unlike a recording engineer or producer. They usually get hired because of a sound. A mastering engineer should be hired because of a non sound. It should be your music only better.

Just a long rant.

Mike

[Brian]

Tend to agree with the peeps here.
You should be able to send it out even if you are self-concious about the material. You might be surprised about the result.
If you have directions for the mastering engineer, give them to him, and tell him to do a version with total disregard to any direction just make it sound good to him.
Thre band EQ and compression? I use at least 4, sometimes 5 bands of both varying amounts on each bandwidth, sometimes I'll change the Q on a bandwidth, sometimes I'll delay bandwidths, you might be able to do that on a keyboard, but, do you know the standards? For me, and believe me I've beaten everybody up about this (with love) you need to know the standards. When you do, you can work anywhere on anything, so long as you aren't fatigued.
I routinely master stuff I mixed. I'd rather not, but, budgets rule clients. I won't let a job I think sucks leave the joint.
Is the budget the real constraint?
Is it the material?
Is it the performance? The recording?
Be brave! Send it out. Production quality won't cover a lousy song

[Mark Alan Miller]

Landon-
I'm glad you're considering it seriously - it could give your record a little more of a fighting chance to "compete"...

But don't just go with anyone who says they can 'master' on the cheap like that. Like I said before, you really gotta hear their work and like it, or have a great recommendation from someone you trust who knows what you're after.

Good luck - and keep us posted with how you do!

Noted. Thanks for the good advice. Have anyone to reccomend in the Santa Barbara/Southern California area? We don't even have all the songs recorded yet, so it'll probably be about 6 months before we need it done realistically.

Landon

I'll ask some friends in LA - but I suspect other folks here on the board will have recommendations!

[lee]

Maybe you missed it in my earlier post, say a bit about these recordings; where did you do them, gear, mixing etc...

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