My ears have been lying to me

floid · Post by **floid** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:42 am

Seriously, that?s the only explanation I?ve been able to come up with.

I?ve been spending my spare time this summer tracking cover versions of the Ramones? first album. Some of their best tunes, IMO, not to mention that my newbie drumming abilities have been benefiting from those simple arrangements. Not to mention that it?s been a real eye-opener in terms of ?let?s see, how many ways can I make kick, snare, and hi-hat sound good together?? Drum tunings, various mic placements, all that jazz. Sometimes I?ve seeing how close I can get to the original, while others, I?ve been taking some liberties with the sound and/or arrangement. Those melodies are great, so great that all kinds of harmonies just pop out at you as you sing along. Not to mention that sometimes you really want a noise solo, or a breakdown, or feel like cutting a verse, you know?

Anyway. This weekend I tracked ?Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue.? I?d originally planned on a cutting a cloned track, in terms of both sound and arrangement, but when I heard the way my SDC was sounding in the heart of the kit (I?d originally intended it as a side snare, but I?d used the omni instead of the cardiod ? I?ve got two Audio Technicas that are virtually identical in appearance), I immediately heard a bass sound that would complement it perfectly. Found that with surprising ease, since it?s a bit different than what I normally go for. Then guitar gave me hell ? two hours, three amps, five guitars and two distortions pedals later (with complementary micing options, natch), though, and I?d found what I thought was one of my best guitar sounds ever. You know, the kind that makes you want to make that little French chef gesture accompanied by ?mwuah!? After that, vox happened on the second take (unheard of ? I drum better than I sing), and kazoo harmony became a happy accident when I discovered it was a perfect match to the fuzz of the guitar. Total tracking time, about four hours ? pretty decent, considering the mild guitar snafu and the fact that I?d been finding a lot of my sounds as I went, rather than "doing what I normally do." In fact, the guitar deal actually seemed like a good thing, in that it had really given me time to pay attention to what the drums and bass were doing, which probably made it that much easier to nail the vox, rather than futzing about with various registers, mic distance, all the crap I usually have to go thru.

My ears were still feeling pretty fresh, so I went ahead and pulled up a rough mix. My tracks were pretty thick, very little high end one anything besides the cymbals, but I was pleasantly surprised at how easily I was able to find a mix that I suspected would be very similar to the final version. The sounds seemed to blend themselves ? I didn?t need to use any e.q., effects, compression, nothing. I wrote down all my mic placements, made notes on the mix, listened to it on loop for a couple hours and went to bed when I noticed the sun was coming up.

You know that warm and fuzzy feeling you wake up with when you had a totally fulfilling experience the night before, even though you can?t yet remember exactly what it was? Yeah. I went to listen to my killer track some more and bask in my own glory, telling myself that, quite possibly, it would be a good idea to retrack all the other tunes with this same golden sound. I sat down at my desk, pressed play, and A BIG BALL OF MUD hit me right in the face. ?Knew it couldn?t be that easy,? I told myself, threw the faders down and started building a fresh mix. Half an hour later I?d found something that I liked ? a little judicial panning, touch of hi-pass on the guitar, but still no real need for any type of carving or processing. ?That?s the way it should be,? I told myself, feeling affirmed once again in the attention I?d paid during tracking. I compared my new mix to notes on the old one, and noticed there were relatively minor changes ? ?But crucial, obviously. Proof you should never track and mix in the same session.?

That night one of my buddies came over, and so naturally I had to show off this killer track. But I pressed play, and after the first fifteen seconds he confirmed my worst suspicions: ?Dude, it sounds like a big ball of mud.? So we threw down all the faders, and built another mix from scratch. Carved and compressed and verbed and flanged the fuck out of everything. The more we worked on it, though, the less we thought we needed of this, and that, and the other, until we were back down to straight tracks again ? sure enough, a comparison to my earlier mix notes revealed that everything was virtually identical to the two earlier versions.

This is really starting to freak me out. Today I checked it again, and sure enough, big ball of mud. Not as big, though, and after listening a few more times it seems to sound exactly the way it should ? I mean, French-chef-putting-hand-to-his-mouth-and-going-?mwhuah?-good, all over again. How is it possible for my perception of this mix to alter so drastically from the time my ears are totally fresh to half-an-hour later? Half of me is really tempted to go ahead and track all the other songs the same way, and just hope there?s some people willing to listen to it until they ?get it.? Other half of me seriously suspects no one would ever be willing to listen to an album (or even single track) of covers that sound like a ball of mud.

jjbohn · Post by **jjbohn** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:51 am

What's your mixing environment like? The majority of the time it's not so much your fault as the room your mixing in, especially when talking about low end. In a smaller room or a room not built for mixing everything below 400Hz (roughly) is usually a lie. Basically because those frequencies do not have enough space to develope.

floid · Post by **floid** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:58 am

Well, i'll be the first to admit my space is less than ideal - 12x20 with some DIY sound treatment. Nor are my monitors - a pair of 70s beasts, supplemented with two beatboxes, a boomy and a tinny, for comparison. Despite such equipment, i'm usually able to come up with mixes that translate decently - especially after i test on a few friends' stereos, of course.
But i'm not talking about my monitors or my room lying to me - my ears are. listening in the environment i just mentioned, one minute they're telling me my mix sucks total troll browneye, and half an hour later they're telling me the exact same mix, out of the exact same speakers, in the exact same room, is the most kickass thing they've ever heard.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:33 pm

Ear Fatigue? Perconceived notions? Booze? Pot? Exhustion?

Leave the song alone for a few days-weeks. Go back and re-mix, then compare.

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:58 pm

3 main things I watch out for.

1 - Doing a mix after a long tracking day.
2 - A bad sounding (or unfamiliar) monitoring environment.
3 - I know this is considered uncool, but I keep some CD's around when I mix to keep my perspective in check.

We've all been there.

jmoose · Post by **jmoose** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:36 pm

We've ALL been there man.

Keeping some reference CD's around to A/B to and keep the perspective in check is always a hip idea.

I take frequent breaks when I'm mixing. Like 10-15 minutes every few hours...go make some coffee, wheel over to the office 'puter on the other side of the room & check email or make a few posts here or on GS or whatever. During that time maybe I'll throw on the PS2 or listen to the TV & catch up on the propaganda...errrr...uhhh...news! LMAO but generally I'm NOT listening to music on the break time. It's entirely to 'cool the ears'.

When I get back to the mix room I might pop a CD in for a few minutes before I head back to whatever mix is on the console. Usually it's something out there too...if I'm working on hardcore metal I'll put on some Coltrane, Charlie Hunter or a band like Dada just to mix it up so I don't get burned out.

Knowing your room & monitors is pretty key, but even MORE key then that...is knowing yourself.

If you feel like your hitting the wall...pushing faders, turning knobs & IT ALL sounds like poo.

It's time to call it a day.

And 'ya know, sometimes mud is cool. It works for all those stoner rock CD's! LOL

dynomike · Post by **dynomike** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:33 am

The first thing I thought of when reading this was the amplifiers of the mind thread from a while back.

After a while of mixing, you are paying so much attention to the mix elements, knowing what they specifically sound like, etc, that it really mixes itself in your mind. But with a fresh perspective, you hear the whole mix, not the individual elements, because your brain doesn't remember all the individual sound parts and isn't mixing them for you.

Did that make ANY sense?

darkhorseporter · Post by **darkhorseporter** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:06 am

dynomike wrote:The first thing I thought of when reading this was the amplifiers of the mind thread from a while back.

After a while of mixing, you are paying so much attention to the mix elements, knowing what they specifically sound like, etc, that it really mixes itself in your mind. But with a fresh perspective, you hear the whole mix, not the individual elements, because your brain doesn't remember all the individual sound parts and isn't mixing them for you.

Did that make ANY sense?

Perfect sense. I've had the same thing happen - especially with tambourine for some reason. You get it panned, EQed, verbed, and leved perfect. Next day its the tambourine remix from hell. Like "where are the drums behind all that tambourine?" kind of mix.

When I feel like I'm getting to that point, I try lots different things to "reset" my ears. turn the volume way up and listen. turn it way down and listen. listen with headphones on. swap the left and right channels. mute everything but drums and vox. go outside, clap and sing a song.

works for me.

floid · Post by **floid** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:53 pm

thanks guys for bothering to read and reply. Yeah, left it alone for a week and it's taken care of itself. usual suspects, vox a bit too quiet and git a bit too loud, plus a slight notch out at 1k to let the bass pull the kit to the git. And of course, the sounds turned out to have some remaining room for improvement - trackedk texas chainsaw massacree last night, intending to use the same setup, and the tweaks started happening. Man, tho, am i liking the sound of that heart omni on the kit, and the Leban (cheap git) thru rat into peavey pacer with ratted out speaker has to be the thickest pile of snot ever - the problem with snot, i think, is sometimes it prevents you from getting the full enjoyment out of your glue sniffing.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:03 pm

You should start referencing more newl released recordings while you're tracking and mixing.

seaneldon · Post by **seaneldon** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:28 pm

i always get my "BEST MIXES!" when i've had like 8 or 9 beers. then i wake up in the studio the next morning and press play and say "wow, gotta stop drinking immediately."

seaneldon · Post by **seaneldon** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:39 pm

those 5 litre heineken draught kegs = the worst thing to happen to recording studios since gated reverb

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:33 pm

I am glad I don't drink. If I did I would most likely do it while I mix by myself and I whould probably put massive amount of verb on the toms (Fantomas style). Then the next day have the band hear it and they say "could you tone down the reverb."

anyway post some mp3's dood

spankenstein · Post by **spankenstein** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:32 pm

I can't really drink when mixing. If I drink one and stop... usually fine, 2 or more and it's like my ears go flat. The ringing gets louder and everything gets really midrangey and kind of cloudy. Although, I guess that's why I'm drinking!

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:07 pm

I could tell you the story of a certain band that suggested everyone in the studio (assistants included) take acid for a long night session.
The poor engineer looked at me and said "I don't really do drugs".
The fear in that guys face!!

I eventually talked them out of it.
Could've been the best or worst session ever.

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