(Physically) huge kick drums

weatherbox · Post by **weatherbox** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:33 pm

I'm getting myself a new kit - I'm not much of a drummer, but it's fun, and I'd love to have a decent kit around for when a band brings in trash. I got a Gretsch Catalina Rock kit through a friend, and it has a massive kick. 26". Huge.

I like big kicks, and they work well for what I do, but having tried to work with large, un-cut resonant head kicks with some rock bands, I know they don't always fit... at all. I'm planning to keep two resonant heads around, one sealed, the other with a hole, so I can at least get some thwack from a close beater mic inside in a pinch. I plan on grabbing a wood beater, and hanging a hinged flap on the beater side head to allow a little resonance at the hit, but close down any excess ringing.

But any other techniques you've found that you love on big kicks, for any style, and ported or closed front... let's discuss.

I've made guys take the front heads off befire when they wanted a present kick sound in a dense, slightly fast song. Sometimes I put a hypercardiod around under the floor tom to get the beater snap, and then either an ATM25 or LDC on the front. Actually got great sounds once with just a 57 on the beater, and a room mic left relatively uncompressed aimed at the kick.

snuffinthepunk · Post by **snuffinthepunk** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:07 pm

if you don't get enough beater click, tape a quarter to the beater and to the head where the beater hits it. or anything else you can think of. that'll give ya some click if the kick is too boomy or ballsy =P

Fletcher · Post by **Fletcher** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:12 pm

I've found Aquarian heads on the beater side tuned down relatively low with a white coated Ambassador head on the outside tuned to the note where you want the drum to sit works like a charm. One thing about 26's that I have found quite interesting is that with no hole in the outside head it's not too difficult to get a rib crunching 'whump' from them... but cut a hole in the outside head and you're going to have to tune the beater side head to the note you're trying to achieve for the drum [which can at times choke the snot out of the damn thing].

At that point it's very much going to be the player and the tuning that will determine the end result [the drums themselves are good, but they'll only be as good as the player and the tunings].

With a drum that size if you have a drummer that leaves the beater sitting on the head between hits you may have more problems getting a sound than you'd like to have. It's still doable, but you'll be making compromises to work around the drummer's shitty technique.

Best of luck with all you do.

weatherbox · Post by **weatherbox** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:20 pm

cool, thanks to you both. I'm personally not into "clicky" kicks, as should be obvious by my new choice of kits... but sometimes you just need it. The low batter/tighter resonant has been what I've been doing, has worked pretty well, as long as it's not me playing, in which case burn the place down as an act of mercy.

I'm slightly partial to sealed resonant heads. I may try and work something out to permanently (or at least in a fairly fixed matter) mount an ATM25 inside the thing with a pigtail coming out somewhere for times I want an interior mic.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:50 pm

I cut couple tunes with a 26" with no muffling and no hole recently. We used a wood beater and I took a D12 and put it about4 feet from the drum at about a 45 degree angle to the head. I had read the Glyn Johns did that with Bonzo. I liked the sound we got this way. WE opened up the arrangement a bit and took out the HiHat in the verses so it was just BD and snare. There was still a ton of boom, so when I mixed I used a slow attack long release compressor to tame it and make it work in the tempo a bit better. The other tune we cut with it didn't make the record, but I think I'm going to mix it soon for an EP.

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:36 pm

That should be a cool kit!

My favorite big kicks have been 26x14.
If the drum gets too long they become very hard to record in my experience.
I personally like them with a full front resonant head.
Coated Emp on the beater and coated Ambassador on the front with just a little muffling inside.
I mic the beater side as well as a couple mics in front.
D12 + FET47 + SDC on the beater = amazing.
With a beater side mic you get a lot of attack and you still get the tone of a full headed drum.
Phase is a bitch, but it's worth the trouble.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:45 pm

try the old felt strip as well

comeontele · Post by **comeontele** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:22 pm

421 or 57 on beater side, ldc up front or a re-20.

felt strips on both sides, emperor coated on batter, ambassador on reso

that's the bonham signature for kick

checkout the secret machines, josh garza plays a 14x26, a friend of mine talked to the engineer and said he just used a 57 on the beater side + the room mic for the kick.

dynomike · Post by **dynomike** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:24 pm

I just recorded that EXACT kick, but this guy had his 18" floor tom in front of the kick as well for a kind of resonant kick..

Sounded fantastic. I did end up using 3 mics, and there was to my surprise, plenty of attack. No problem there. And no holes.

I would really refrain from doing a hole - just do powerstoke 3 or aquarian superkick 1 on the batter, ambassador coated on the front, no hole. I set up the mics as follows and found that they sounded great:

1. shure sm91 under the shell for attack.
2. beyer m88 up against the front head (~2" from the head, maybe 6" in from the edge of the drum)
3. audiotechnica 4047 out in front of the resonating tom (probably about 3 or 4 feet from the actual kick, close to the floor)

Dave-H · Post by **Dave-H** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:09 pm

I have a 14 X 28 with a 4 piece Ludwig kit & two 16 X 24's with my new GMS kit. I love big bass drums. Bass players say they LOVE the Ludwig because they can really feel it when it is played.
If it ain't at least a 24", it's just a kick drum!

jv · Post by jv » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:58 pm

drumsound wrote:I cut couple tunes with a 26" with no muffling and no hole recently. We used a wood beater and I took a D12 and put it about4 feet from the drum at about a 45 degree angle to the head. I had read the Glyn Johns did that with Bonzo. I liked the sound we got this way. WE opened up the arrangement a bit and took out the HiHat in the verses so it was just BD and snare. There was still a ton of boom, so when I mixed I used a slow attack long release compressor to tame it and make it work in the tempo a bit better. The other tune we cut with it didn't make the record, but I think I'm going to mix it soon for an EP.

This is interesting- this sounds like it might work for our drummer. Do you have the D12 4 feet directly in front with the mic angled, or is the D12 4 feet out at an angle? Did you make a tunnel or anything?

yardleyone · Post by **yardleyone** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:08 pm

i played on a session with a drummer who used a 28 inch kick from C&C. it was amazing.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:07 pm

'Course if you've got a drummer who's used to a small kick (20") going straight to the big ol' bass drum you might run into technique problems. I went from a 20x22" to a 26x14". Results were predictably horrible. Double hits and all, and me an experienced drummer. The feel is just *totally* different. Required more strength and used different leg muscles. Nothing that couldn't be fixed with a day or two of practice on a bigger drum, but definitely something to consider if studio time is an issue.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:15 am

jv wrote:
drumsound wrote:I cut couple tunes with a 26" with no muffling and no hole recently. We used a wood beater and I took a D12 and put it about4 feet from the drum at about a 45 degree angle to the head. I had read the Glyn Johns did that with Bonzo. I liked the sound we got this way. WE opened up the arrangement a bit and took out the HiHat in the verses so it was just BD and snare. There was still a ton of boom, so when I mixed I used a slow attack long release compressor to tame it and make it work in the tempo a bit better. The other tune we cut with it didn't make the record, but I think I'm going to mix it soon for an EP.
This is interesting- this sounds like it might work for our drummer. Do you have the D12 4 feet directly in front with the mic angled, or is the D12 4 feet out at an angle? Did you make a tunnel or anything?

The D12 was in front of the drum but pointing at an angle, not straight at the drum. It was pretty close to the floor on a desktop type stand. As I think more about it I don't really think it was 4 feet out. 2.5-3 is probably more accurate.

youngjim · Post by **youngjim** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:39 pm

i have a slingerland radio king 28" and it's my favorite sound, with a fiberskyn on the res and powerstroke on the batter. i use dampener on the front. i found it really hard to not sound like a cardboard box with the d12, but the apex ribbon mic (the same as the other chinese ribbon mics) really makes it sound deep, full and wonderful. and i'm not sure i'd suggest fiberskyns, i think a coated ambassor would be better, i just can't afford a variety of 28" heads lying around.

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(Physically) huge kick drums

(Physically) huge kick drums

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