M/S techniques

shakestheclown · Post by **shakestheclown** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:07 pm

Can this be done with 3 cardioid mics?

Maybe phase reverse one of the "side" mics?

parlormusic · Post by **parlormusic** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:20 am

I'm sure it can. Never tried it though. I wonder if it'd be as effective due to the cardioids having a wider pickup area compared to a figure-8. I would think that you'd have some phase issues since the diaphrams will have some distance between them with the side mics.

wiggins · Post by **wiggins** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:47 am

From what I've read, and what I've been told, no, it won't. Or, at least it won't be M-S. It'd be something different. Not to mention more difficult than using a perfectly fine X-Y pattern.

The side-rejection of the figure-8 pattern is what allows this to work, I think. Rejection on cardoid patterns is not as strong, so you'll be having 2 'side' channels with a lot of 'mid' information in them.

If you don't have any figure-8 mics, just use X-Y, or ORTF until you can get one. There really isn't that big of a difference. I had to wait, too. I was so excited when I found out how M-S worked that I wanted to make it work without the right equipment, too. Now I'm doing the same thing with Blumlein (which I think sounds better for most of the applications on which I used M-S, and is easier) - and I have to wait for 2 matched figure 8 mics.

It sure is fun when you're able to use it, though.

Here's some good information about it. Scroll down at your leisure.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:15 pm

I have nothing to add but to say that shakes the clown is one of my favorite movies. . .

Scodiddly · Post by **Scodiddly** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:38 pm

You can create a very close approximation to a figure-8 by putting two cardioids back-to-back and then changing the polarity (aka "flipping the phase") on one of them. Works plenty well enough for fooling around with M/S techniques. Just try to position the two mics such that their diaphragms are in the same plane.

heylow · Post by **heylow** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:43 pm

shakestheclown wrote:Can this be done with 3 cardioid mics?

Maybe phase reverse one of the "side" mics?

Yo....if you search the forums a bit, I believe "professor (jeremy)" did a very well informed presentation of exactly this concept. Shouldn't be too tough to find....someone less lazy than I might even be inclined to find the link for you.

heylow

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:20 pm

I seem to recall posting something about that - and I don't care to retype it or find it, but it's out there.

The short answer is, Yes, you can create an M/S setup with three cardioids.
Indeed, that's how it is done in most M/S stereo mics. And a multi-pattern mic is made by placing two cardioids back-to-back - they are cardioid when one is turned off, omni when the two are summed, and fig-8 when one is inverted & they are summed.

-Jeremy

rhythm ranch · Post by **rhythm ranch** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:18 am

Professor wrote:I seem to recall posting something about that - and I don't care to retype it or find it, but it's out there.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=34147

Message Board

M/S techniques

M/S techniques

Re: M/S techniques

Who is online