RNC-not balanced...who cares?

[ted dawg]

Does this matter? If I go from my Vintech X73 into a RNC by FMR does it really matter that the RNC isn't balanced? Can you hear the difference?


Thanks.

Ted

[???????]

not if the cable runs are short.

[I'm Painting Again]

is the rnc looking for a -10 or +4 type level?

theoretically you could hear a difference..hitting a device thats expecting a "cooler" signal can cause distrotion for one example..

the rx73 is transformer balanced at the output right?

if so you can wire it like this:



or you can use an isolation transformer for optimal results..

[kayagum]

rnc is +4 and unbalanced.

[A-Barr]

????

How is that supposed to work?

You mean that's what it expects going in or is that what it sends out?

Won't that either mean you need a wacky line amp to drive itt, or that you'll overdrive whatever comes after it, respectively?

[ted dawg]

Thanks!

[rhythm ranch]

Hooking up an RNC.

[markitzero]

Correct if I'm wrong, but everything I've ever done with inserting compressors into any kind of signal path utilizing insert cable has been unbalanced operation. Insert cables=unbalanced. Or have the past ten years of my life been a total lie?

[JdJ]

I have never seen a balanced insert, but what do I know? I would think that the signal in most gear post-input transformer would be unbalanced as the transformer (or opamp or however a signal is (pseudo)balanced without a tranformer) does the recombining of the signals, right? I'm sure Prof will chime in with an answer for us...

BTW I've had pretty good luck with the RNC into balanced gear.

-J

[JASIII]

I still don't understand the logic behind making it unbalanced in this day and age. I finally just wired into a patchbay and said the hell with it.

[rhythm ranch]

I still don't understand the logic behind making it unbalanced in this day and age.

From FMR:

Why is the RNC unbalanced instead of balanced?
You'd think the answer to this one would be a simple "to keep costs down". Although that's one of the reasons, there's another reason that's less obvious and the primary one: we designed the RNC to be used in home studios (like ours) made up primarily of unbalanced pieces. So, we designed it to easily interface to equipment usually found in the intended environment. For example, many home studios use mixing boards that have single Tip-Ring-Sleeve insert points on their input channels. We thought that it'd be neat, convenient and show unambiguous support for this studio type by allowing the RNC to be hooked directly to these inserts with single TRS cables. If the I/Os were balanced, we wouldn't be able to do that.

[JASIII]

I still don't understand the logic behind making it unbalanced in this day and age.

From FMR:

Why is the RNC unbalanced instead of balanced?
You'd think the answer to this one would be a simple "to keep costs down". Although that's one of the reasons, there's another reason that's less obvious and the primary one: we designed the RNC to be used in home studios (like ours) made up primarily of unbalanced pieces. So, we designed it to easily interface to equipment usually found in the intended environment. For example, many home studios use mixing boards that have single Tip-Ring-Sleeve insert points on their input channels. We thought that it'd be neat, convenient and show unambiguous support for this studio type by allowing the RNC to be hooked directly to these inserts with single TRS cables. If the I/Os were balanced, we wouldn't be able to do that.

right. I have the manual. I think they are wrong. I don't think most home studios are made up of unbalanced gear. Not anymore, maybe in 1990 they were but times change. I don't think the cute trick of using one TRS cable as an insert is worth it. I have real insert cables. I can count my unbalanced gear on one hand: RNC and alesis microlimiter. My life would be better if the RNC were balanced. I might actually use it more than as a last resort too. I don't think I've touched it in 6 months.

[rhythm ranch]

I don't use the RNC much either, but that's because I think it's kind of boring.

I've got a ton of unbalanced gear in my studio.

[wardshorsehead]

I think that the expectation that most home studios these days revolve around a console is a little dated, yet if one is using it as an insert, i've not seen a balanced insert point on a typical home studio mixer, so the argument that they pose is valid.

more and more, with people using outboard preamps, which many do not have insert points, i can see why people want it balanced.

i thought it was boring and sold mine, but can see where it would be useful to some.

i have a dbx comp that is rca connected, unbalanced, with a +4 input. thats a bit more of a pain in the ass, imho, but it is worth it.

JASIII...those little balancing boxes aren't too expensive, and if you are running it into a patch bay, set up a couple of points on the bay with the balancing box. then you can run your alesis or rnc in full balanced glory.

frank

[emrr]

This balancing thing drives me nuts. Leave the poor RNC alone. Buy something vastly more expensive if you want your $ taken from you in a fit of paranoia.

Look, we all plug hi-impedance guitars and amps into 20 foot unbalanced cables all the time, with no problems. That's at least 100 times more likely to give you a problem than a low impedance line level use. I really don't understand why everyone gets paranoid about unbalanced low impedance gear, when most people have never once had any problems arise from it's use. Unless they couldn't figure out how to follow the instructions for connecting to various types of balanced equipment; it's usually in the manual, and if not, there's a shitload of primers on equipment connections online. You are more likely to have problems if you really have a lot of 50-100' wire runs, but even then it may make no difference. My RNC's live on the end of AT LEAST 50 FEET of unbalanced wire when you count the runs to and from the patchbay and the patchbay to the console and recorder. They cross power cables (potential interference) several times. NO PROBLEMS!! THIS IS NOT STRANGE OR MIRACULOUS!!

Balanced connections require more parts and tend to not sound as good as their simpler unbalanced counterparts, and many hi-end manufacturers (Manley) build primarily unbalanced gear for this very reason. Many lower priced pieces use pseudo-balancing that is really an unbalanced amp driving only one pin of an XLR, with the other pin strapped to ground with a resistor. Are we more paranoid yet? In that case the amped and the non-amped XLR pins are balanced for common-mode interference with respect to ground, but are not delivering signal on both lines. YOU CAN WIRE YOUR rnc/etc TO XLR's THIS WAY YOURSELF if you can use a soldering iron and figure out the resistor used in the RNC/etc!! Some gear delivers true equal value level on both lines. Floating transformer connections automatically connecct as balanced or unbalanced depending on what they are mating with.

Who started this paranoid trend, and where do I go to hunt them down and kill them?

That was kind of fun....