Amek Matchless signal flow

[audio[LAB]]

Hi there,

I picked up an Amek/TAC Matchless some time ago and just recently began using it. At the moment I am only using it through the direct outs of the first 16 channels into my 002 and my frontier tango 24. I know this board has an in-line design and I would like to use it. I want to setup a complete out of the box setup. I have the manual but i find its not very clear as to the signal flow of the board.

How can I use the in-line function of the board? I have the EDAC snakes that pertain to the patchbay but they're not completely done. I just haven't had time or money to finish them. Is there a way to use the in-line function without the snakes?

I also started using the auxes for headphone mixes and talkback but i find that taking the xlr connection from under the patchbay gives me nothing, however when I go directly form the back through the 1/4" aux jacks i can use the talkback via the SLATE button. Is this because im going out of the direct outs?

Any general info on any of th boards other functions would be helpfull as well.

Thanks in advance,
Danny

[Masks!]

ah...let me see. I had a Matchless years ago and oddly, I just got the exact same desk back again! It's not up and running yet, and it's been a while since I've used it, but let me see if this comes back to me.

So, let me ask some questions first. Are you using the first 16 channels as your mic pre's? i.e. not using any outboard pre's? How many channels total is the console?

Reguardless, the first thing I would do if I were you is wire your 002 and tango ins and outs to the patchbay. This will make things sooo much more convenient in the future.

The inline function is really just the ability to monitor your tape ruturns while using the channels as pre's. So your fader is the output of the mic-pre, and the "level" pot in the monitor section allows you to hear the either the tape return or the buss (depending on how you assign it) and adjust volume witout messing with your faders. I'm going to be setting up the exact same setup as you (002 w/ additional 8 ch. converter) and don't see any reason to ever use the inline functions. It will still be "out of the box". I use a combination of outboard pre's and console pre's and still have plenty of channels left on the console to monitor all my PT outputs. So maybe I'm a little unclear as to what your trying to achive.

And, if I remember correctly, all ins outs and everything in-between can be accesed without using the EDAC stuff. I may be wrong on that I'll have to take a nice long look at the patchbay.

As for the talkback aux question. I seem to remember also having to use the 1/4" aux sends on the back of the desk, but I didn't need to use the slate function, I simply assigned the talkbak to "aux 3,4,7,8". Try messing in the aux master section maybe something isn't assigned the way it needs to be. "Slate" just sends the talk back out to all the direct outs.

Get to know this site:
http://www.audiomaintenance.com/home.htm

And I see you've already found the Amek/Tac forum.

My memory is really scattered on all of this though so in a few weeks after I get mine running again I should be way more usefull.

mike

[audio[LAB]]

i'm not using any outboard pre's at the moment. The console is the longframe 36 channel configuration.

Well the whole thing with the in-line is that I come from using an SSL 4000g that has the "in-line" fader. I was under the impression that the amek had similar capabilities. thus the ability to monitor before and after tape through the same channel. just for the sake of not using up more channels than is absolutely necessary. I guess what i'm really asking is how do I get my tape returns to show up on the "monitor"pot? according to the manual this is done through the edac snake. Did I just answer my own question or is there another way?

Your answer really explained a lot with the auxes I'll give that a try. Can you give me more specifics on what you setup is going to be like?

I had a session last week and I set it up this way:

1. All my mics go into their respective channels behind the board.
2. the direct outs of each individual channel are going into pro tools.
3. i'm monitoring through the MAIN L, R output of my 002.
4. I have all the headphone mixes sent out through the 1/4" jacks in the aux master panel.

Can you give me an overview of your setup? I just want to be able to monitor through the board for the obvious reasons, even if it means not using the in-line feature.

thanks again!

[drumsound]

i'm not using any outboard pre's at the moment. The console is the longframe 36 channel configuration.

Well the whole thing with the in-line is that I come from using an SSL 4000g that has the "in-line" fader. I was under the impression that the amek had similar capabilities. thus the ability to monitor before and after tape through the same channel. just for the sake of not using up more channels than is absolutely necessary. I guess what i'm really asking is how do I get my tape returns to show up on the "monitor"pot? according to the manual this is done through the edac snake. Did I just answer my own question or is there another way?

Your answer really explained a lot with the auxes I'll give that a try. Can you give me more specifics on what you setup is going to be like?

I had a session last week and I set it up this way:

1. All my mics go into their respective channels behind the board.
2. the direct outs of each individual channel are going into pro tools.
3. i'm monitoring through the MAIN L, R output of my 002.
4. I have all the headphone mixes sent out through the 1/4" jacks in the aux master panel.

Can you give me an overview of your setup? I just want to be able to monitor through the board for the obvious reasons, even if it means not using the in-line feature.

thanks again!

i had a TAC Magnum and I'm pretty sure the tape deck was on the "tape return" EDAC under the patchbay. There are assignment or source switches of some sort on the monitor and main paths. Or maybe the monitor path automatically gets signal from the tape returns unless the main channel has "tape" selected. On feature that was great was that you could switch the faders so the monitor fader pot was the send TO tape level and the main fader was for monitoring off the recorder. You could also switch the Eq to the main fader of the monitor path. You can also set up the aux sends to be fed from the main or the monitor path.

[Masks!]

let's see...my set up would be as follows:

First 8 channels are set aside for use as mic pre's. I grab the signal from those by patching from the "buss out" on the patchbay and sending to whatever channel in PT I wish. Outboard pre's are done in the same manner. Then I route 16 outs from Pro Tools and patch them into the "line in" points 16-24 on the patch bay. Keeping in mind that I could not accomplish this if Pro Tools was not available at the patch bay as well.

I believe I absolutly could use the inline function for those channels 1-8 if I needed too, and I don't think that using the EDAC cables has anything to do with it - MAYBE. I'm pretty sure that if you routed the pro tools outs to the "tape in" on the patch bay insted of the "line in", then the "buss/tape" switch on the monitor section of each channel would function properly and let you hear before and after hitting tape depending on what position it's in.

....Man I need to check this all out now.....

Mike

[Masks!]

oops...here it is not in quotes


let's see...my set up would be as follows:

First 8 channels are set aside for use as mic pre's. I grab the signal from those by patching from the "buss out" on the patchbay and sending to whatever channel in PT I wish. Outboard pre's are done in the same manner. Then I route 16 outs from Pro Tools and patch them into the "line in" points 16-24 on the patch bay. Keeping in mind that I could not accomplish this if Pro Tools was not available at the patch bay as well.

I believe I absolutly could use the inline function for those channels 1-8 if I needed too, and I don't think that using the EDAC cables has anything to do with it - MAYBE. I'm pretty sure that if you routed the pro tools outs to the "tape in" on the patch bay insted of the "line in", then the "buss/tape" switch on the monitor section of each channel would function properly and let you hear before and after hitting tape depending on what position it's in.

....Man I need to check this all out now.....

Mike

[Masks!]

I believe it also have something to do with the "select to main stereo" buttons on the master fader right above the master mute switch. If I remember correctly, when tracking, you send the "mon" to the main stereo L+R, and then when you go to mix you pop in whatever the other one is labeled as, essentially sending the faders to the stereo L+R. The printing on mine was worn off so I never really knew what it said.

I remember getting a really ....really...loud feedback loop when I engaged the faders to stereo L+R and still had tracks enabled on the tape machine while also sending the monitor to L+R. So try not to do that.

Unfortunatly I don't think the matchless has the ability to flip the path so that the monitor section is the output send like the Magnum has....that would be super rad. Hell maybe it does and I just never figured it out!

I'll have mine in my studio and on it's way to glory in about a week, thats when I'll really be able to get into it and re-learn everything I forgot.

[drumsound]

If you have more channels than you need to have mics and tape returns speerate you can also use the mixer like a split console. One part for mic ins the other for tape returns. Then at mix time use the mic channels as line inputs from effects and whatnot.

[audio[LAB]]

Haven't been on all week, super busy in the studio! Thanks a lot for the great advice, i'll go ahead and try everything as soon as this session is done with.....

Danny

[Masks!]

Hey audioLAB I wanted to ask what you think of the Tango24? Right now I'm using a cruddy old ADAT XT to get more i/o from my digi001, and the Tango24 looks to be a pretty decent upgrade for little money. What do you think? The other unit I'm considering is the RME ADI-8, but it costs more than twice as much used on average, and I'm not really interested in forking out $2000+ for seemingly over-rated/over-priced apogee stuff. Thoughts?

[audio[LAB]]

I don't have too much past experience with straight a/d d/a converters such as the tango. I can tell you it sounds significantly different than the converters on the 002 which I find pretty descent to begin with. I really like that it is a simple single rack space design that does nothing but convert. I worked with alex newport for a while and he had an alesis in the $400 range that he used to say wasn't very good. However he was able to turn out some kick ass recordings with it. At the moment I just can't justify spending money on high end converters. I'm on a tight budget to begin with and would be more inclined to buy a pre or comp.

To answer your question, I'm very pleased with the tango at the moment.