Mixing other people's tracks

[Rodgre]

This has probably been brought up a zillion times but it's just been on my mind.

This year, I've actually done a lot of projects where I've mixed what others have recorded, be it at other studios, or a client's own recording gear. Sometimes the tracks they give you sound great out of the chute, but other times, you're massaging things for days trying to get things to gel.

When I'm engineering a project, I'm always doing it with the mix in mind, so I make sure that all my drum mics will make sense to me when I'm mixing. I try not to have too many options for mix, as I like to make the decisions as we go. Sometimes that works out great, but other times I still end up endlessly tweaking things to fill out the puzzle. Same goes if I'm tracking for someone else to mix. I want to give them some room for options, but I'd rather them be able to put the faders up to unity and hear the track at least 90% as it should sound.

When mixing other people's tracks, I'm often really frustrated because I don't have the sense of security I would if I had tracked it myself. I don't have the usual things to rely on, for example, like I said in another thread, I try to get a good drum sound going in the overheads alone, so I can usually start my drum mix by putting the overheads up then putting in the close mics to beef things up. With some other projects the overheads might be fizzy or dull or have a harsh tone, or worse: have a tiny thin snare sound.

I feel responsible, as these clients are counting on me to sort everything out, and sometimes I end up feeling like it would have been easier or at least quicker to retrack things so I'd know what was going on. That said, it's probably more a case of me not being able to rely on MY techniques in tracking, while the tracks are certainly fine for mixing. I'm just lost without my security blanket of having things the way I like them. It's not the tracking engineer's fault....sometimes.

It makes you understand why certain mixing engineers who are known as home-run hitters in this business have their bag of tricks that they rely on. Certain engineers have a set of go-to samples that they always layer on the kick and snare, and certain vocal effects that they always use, and certain compressors on certain busses that they always use. Some even insist on DI guitar tracks in case they need to reamp things later (which they often do). The people who have it down to a science and can punch in at 9 and leave a 6 having at least one or more mixes done in a day....whew! I got to hand it to them. Especially if they're getting material from all sorts of sessions.... I can only imagine some of the stuff they get with bad edits and a million overdubs to sift through. I'm getting an ulcer just thinking about it.... or maybe that's from the three lattes I've had today.

Roger

[joel hamilton]

You nailed it. You also answered the question, "Joel, why do you have so many different compressors and EQ's in the rack, and all this stuff?"

Because one day it will be mixing a rock record tracked by someone who really knew what they were doing, with overdubs by the band (done well). The next it will be basic tracks that will take a whole different aproach to get them working... the next it will be a fusion jazz/rock record that is well recorded but STILL requires yet a different approach. Think of it this way: if you track a bunch of different bands and styles, you wouldnt ONLY have a marshall JCM800, right? you would want a twin, and a bunch of other small amps that give you a bunch of different colors to suit the moment, all things considered. Same goes with my "instrument" which is the control room. I need it to perform perfectly in a million and 1 situations. I am happy to be mixing a TON of stuff tracked all over the world and all over the map quality and sonics wise, but I need a very deep bag of tricks to get it to where the client (and I) want it to go in the end... to be great no matter what came through the door... it just HAS to be great... there really is no other option. I do lean on certain constants, because I have to when dealing with this overwhelmeng number of varibles. Certain working methods that I know will get me in the ballpark.... but then it is all seat of the pants from there. I hope I get to mix something you tracked, man... sounds like you actually take time and care, which is the most important thing, even over DI gtr (which I like) and 43 choices of room mic (which I dont need, 2 is great, even in mono).

[Colin F.]

I personally love the "problem solving" process that is mixing. I like digging through the tracks and polishing things and pulling out the best bits. I like the added challenge on working on other people's stuff because everyone does things differently and you learn so much more mixing other people's work than you do your own. I like having to apply and develop new tricks and all the things you listed. I think it takes a certain personality to find enjoyment in that sort of thing, though and I certainly understand why many people are turned off by it.

The best thing about mixing something you didn't track, though, is that you have no attachment to anything, emotionally so you're just getting to hear the music in a really pure way. I love having that perspective and I find that it can be very valuable to the artist. I don't even like to listen to the rough mix any more than one time max because I need that first impression as I pull up the faders. It inspires and excites me when I work on the song. That sounds cheesy, but its the truth.

[drumsound]

I really wish I was mixing more things done elsewhere. It's really interesting to hear how things were done and figuring out what I'm going to do to it.

[thethingwiththestuff]

like drumsound, i would LOVE to mix more well tracked material from an outside source. usually if i'm just mixing something, it's to fix up a band's home recording. that's a certain useful skill, but i need some stuff that can teach me about my own tracking to.

sometimes, i envy a band's brazen use of cheap reverb plugins and the amount of high end they're comfortable with!

[Jeff White]

I've spent the last year and a half with 30 songs tracked elsewhere in various stages for my friends' band. Most songs sounded great before I got them, tracked with a KM184 and Gefell UM70 through a decent dbx preamp. I was hired to track additionally and mix. It's been fun.

[rwc]

I hate mixing other people's material.

It's always a worst case scenario. Nothing sounds good from the start, nothing is labeled remotely properly. 53 tracks of drum takes with unlabeled drums = D:

I like recording music. I don't even like mixing it afterwards, unless there are effects I want. I put 2 mics in the room where I hear the band best. I find the perfect position, balance them in the room, then add other mics to taste where I want them. I have no kick mic. Not enough snap on the kick, add a kick mic behind the kick next to the beater. the bass is weak. add a DI. Oh, crap, that dumbass bass player is using 20 fuzz pedals and the bass sounds like dinner being regurgitated. Explain to him why he may want to turn it down a little. The secondary guitarist has his guitar turned to the side so it's not facing the XY room mics I put up in the spot where I best like listening to the band. Now it sounds appropriate. No trickery, no adding reverb, no crazy delays to make it sit back in a mix. All I do is turn the amp around 90 degrees.

This makes it all so easy. I never understood what people meant when they said "yeah, you could track it here cheap, then go mix it in a 'big facility." WTF does that mean? Why in god's name would you cheap out on recording? I can mix a well recorded piece of music on a cheapass behringer mixer, because it really won't require much mixing. but making badly recorded stuff sound good is.. not something I enjoy.l

Maybe it has to do with my own inexperience - I'm still new to this. But I prefer recording, I never want to be a mixer. I mix as I record, but I don't enjoy making a big event over it, or booking time for it. If the band asks if they can book time with me to mix something after we recorded it, I consider it a failure on my part. If they aren't 99.9% satisfied with the sound when they come back into the control room to listen to a take, enough so to ask about future mixing, I think I failed.

[JohnDavisNYC]

i really like mixing other people's tracks...

i like listening to the song, listening to all the microphones available, and then deciding which ones will sound good for that song.

i find that mixing music i didn't track, i am much more open to using only the channels that the song needs, rather than using all 9 drum mics, out of some wierd sense of obligation, since i tracked them all... i dunno. i am trying to make myself treat everything that way these days, particularly things i have tracked.... if the song only really truly needs kick out, overheads, and one of the close room mics, then that is all i will use.... leave the faders for the kick in, snare top, toms, etc. muted, and build the mix around that sound.... it osunds obvious, but i bet most of us don't do that always.... trying to treat the mix like i have never heard the song before.

the fresh mix perspective is always nice.

john

[cgarges]

The best thing about mixing something you didn't track, though, is that you have no attachment to anything, emotionally so you're just getting to hear the music in a really pure way.

I mix a fair amount of stuff that other people have tracked and I totally feel this way about it. I guess in a way, I'm a little more cavalier when I mix other people's stuff because I have this non-attached sort of thing about doing whatever I can to make it sound right, whereas if I tracked it, I feel like I have to follow through with wherever I was going for when I recorded it. I mean, that's not an absolute or anything, but that does happen at least some of the time.

I really enjoy mixing other people's stuff, though. The mixes always sound a little different from the way I normally do things and that's exciting to me.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[auralman]

I do enjoy mixing other people's stuff, I agree with Chris; I tend to be a little more cavalier with it. Interestingly though (perhaps not surprising) it all ends up sounding like I tracked it, no matter what combination of crap I go through. I guess that's a good thing? I don't have "clients" anymore, just friends who ask me for help and I don't charge, then there's my band's stuff that's about 90% of what I play with...inevitably, I get the same "type" of mix going.

That said - I think I'm going to start another thread doing a hooray for parallel compression inside PTLE, which I could never figure the routing out for until just recently thanks to a fellow TOMBer. I feel like how I used to mix on consoles again, my speed has come back, my creativity is back, I'm hearing what I expect....huge change. I was fighting every single mix in PTLE before this, and I was considering dropping serious coin on a Dangerous box or something like that to get over my woes. Glad I hung in there, I'm in heaven again. MAN I love mixing almost as much as tracking.

[Joe P.]

...If the band asks if they can book time with me to mix something after we recorded it, I consider it a failure on my part. If they aren't 99.9% satisfied with the sound when they come back into the control room to listen to a take, enough so to ask about future mixing, I think I failed.

I think that's a decent and high standard you have set, and should yield quality results for you. As long as you realize there is no single correct approach to recording/mixing. It's good to know one's own strengths and weaknesses.

[vvv]

I do a fair (40-50 songs/year?) amount of mixing for other, like-minded, bedio recordists; I guess I'm OK since I get asked to.

I also volunteer, because I find mixing an incredibly creative and satisfying process - trying to keep to the artist's vision, while making the tracks somehow "better".

The only real problems I have is with drums; most of my projects involve guys recording drums in their basements, often witth Roland-type DAW's, and they typically send two-track submixes where the hi-hats and kicks are too high.

That, and getting them to understand that they should send raw (especially vocal) tracks, with maybe a processed or compressed copy as an example.

But I get as much satisfaction from making someone else's stuff sound good as I do working on my own; love it!

[@?,*???&?]

I do enjoy mixing other people's stuff, I agree with Chris; I tend to be a little more cavalier with it. Interestingly though (perhaps not surprising) it all ends up sounding like I tracked it, no matter what combination of crap I go through.

Wow, you must have the midas touch! lol

If drums are tracked poorly- and I've waded through my share of tracks like that- they never sound like I tracked them once they are mixed. That is, if they can even be mixed. I may pay attention to alot more detail than whoever recorded it, but the end result does not sound like something I recorded.

[auralman]

er..yah. Every thing I touch turns into precious metal.

mmm.....metal.

What I was goin for there is that I "go for" the same palette of sounds no matter what I'm working with - if that means replacing a drum or reamping a guitar, whatever, I need to get it to that point. If it sounds like I mixed it or it sounds like I tracked it, whatever, same result to mind's ear. I track things to get to where I like - but to mix faster, save me the time at that stage. Really along the lines of what Joel was saying - I'm trying to get everything to that 'ridiculous' state, where everyone is really psyched about it, whatever it takes to get there. Sometimes I've sat in front of absolute turds, but I'm always willing to pull out every damn trick I've ever learned, plus a few I haven't even tried, to get to the ridiculous point. Anything less is just pointless.

Why oh why oh why would you bother doing anything that wasn't the best you could do it? For one thing, I don't have the memory to do a half assed job ("So why did that suck"..."Oh, I was sick that day, pissed at my wife..."), so it's easier to just say "I did the best I was capable of" and be honest. Further, if I hear ANYTHING go by that makes me go "hmm, is that perfect?" I just go at it until it is. That's not to say I'm a perfectionist, I love the beauty of a perfect mistake, but if I'm going to put something out there, I want to be proud of the criticism.

Sorry if that sounds like a rant, I'm not like pissed at anything or anyone, I just felt like one of those moments where it's "hey, I feel THIS way, so THERE", as good a night as any to do so.

Rock over Cleveland, Rock over Chicago.

[auralman]

btw mevv (vvv), love reading your not-distorted typing in these parts. You're far easier to process this way

Now bek ta yer regulerlee skedooled programin on d' Planit.