Mixing other people's tracks

[cgarges]

Rock over Cleveland, Rock over Chicago.

I think that's "Rock over Cleveland. Rock on Chicago."

I remember the first time I realized that my mixes really had a specific character. I mixed something for an older R&B artist when I was on staff at this one particular studio. This guy actually had a Grammy for song of the year back in the 60s and I respected him a lot. I mixed one of his songs and although he liked the mix, he decided to have another one of the staff engineers re-mix it because mine was "too rock." I took it as a compliment, although it really made me think about having the ability to really shape a mix, as opposed to just making it sound like what I thought was "good."

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[auralman]

yep, sorry it is on.

used be Rock over London, Rock on Chicago, wasn't it?

I whupped batman's ass.

[@?,*???&?]

Really along the lines of what Joel was saying - I'm trying to get everything to that 'ridiculous' state, where everyone is really psyched about it, whatever it takes to get there..

Understood, this is an area I call 'bigger, louder, more'. Every mix has to get there.

[cgarges]

used be Rock over London, Rock on Chicago, wasn't it?

Actually, yeah, it was "Rock over London, Rock on [insert city of current location]." Since most of his studio albums were done in Chicago, that's the one you hear most, but those live tapes generally have wherever they were recorded mentioned.

I just found out tonight that there's a good documentary on Wesley Willis. I'll have to check it out.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[joel hamilton]

used be Rock over London, Rock on Chicago, wasn't it?

Actually, yeah, it was "Rock over London, Rock on [insert city of current location]." Since most of his studio albums were done in Chicago, that's the one you hear most, but those live tapes generally have wherever they were recorded mentioned.

I just found out tonight that there's a good documentary on Wesley Willis. I'll have to check it out.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

My old band played with Wesley in KC,MO, and with him again in Chicacgo, at the Empty Bottle. He gave me one of his big sharpie drawings. He was great. I still have the sharpie drawing... on a big piece of posterboard, just like all of his art.

[amyatt1]

So what happens when the band isn't happy with the mixes? After trying to redo things and change the mix over and over. The tracks are what they are right? How can you make a band understand that? You can polish a turd, but then all you get a shiny turd...

[drumsound]

used be Rock over London, Rock on Chicago, wasn't it?

Actually, yeah, it was "Rock over London, Rock on [insert city of current location]." Since most of his studio albums were done in Chicago, that's the one you hear most, but those live tapes generally have wherever they were recorded mentioned.

I just found out tonight that there's a good documentary on Wesley Willis. I'll have to check it out.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Don't forget to follow with a known ad slogan like "Milk, it does a body good" or "Celozzi-Eddelson where you always save more money!"

[auralman]

So what happens when the band isn't happy with the mixes? After trying to redo things and change the mix over and over. The tracks are what they are right? How can you make a band understand that? You can polish a turd, but then all you get a shiny turd...

I think that depends on the band's (and your) dedication and time. If you have the ability to articulate what would make something better and the band is willing to do it, toss up some mics and start retracking things! If it's purely sonics that aren't working - which is so rarely the case, it's like, 99.999% of the time arrangement-based issues - then you're not pushing your ability hard enough. Re-amp this, schmear that, delay this, EQ that, distort this, compress that, run this loop, use a jacob's ladder on that, smash a cassette tape with your boot and play it back this, run the whole mix through a playskool mic that, etc. Creativity beats bad sonics, but bad arrangements make turds, and turd polish does not produce a good mix.

On the other hand, don't ignore the band - if they want what's on tape to be the component of the mix, then get to shining! You may not get it, but that's what your client wants, so that's what your client gets. Your opinion on that turd is not in the price they pay, only your advice and skill. If the talent chooses not to take your advice, shut up about it. By the way, if that makes you uncomfortable, the right thing to do is speak up and say you're not the man for the job, and they would be better served by a mixing engineer that hears what they're going for with what's already there.

[Signalflow]

I don't get a chance to do this that often, but I've always enjoyed simply mixing. It allows me to take a completely different approach to a mix than I would have had I been there for the tracking as well.

I think people have a tendency to get used to the psuedo board mix that they constantly hear during tracking and overdubs and try (whether consciously or otherwise) to emulate that in their mixes, which can make for sloppy mixes. The challenge for me is to get away from that. That's why simply mixing provides that new approach to the songs for me.

That being said, there have been some serious nightmares with bands tracking the record themselves...

[vvv]

btw mevv (vvv), love reading your not-distorted typing in these parts. You're far easier to process this way

Now bek ta yer regulerlee skedooled programin on d' Planit.

Hey, I told a story about Slash in another thread, so I just have to mention Wesley Willis, who was a guy I counted as a casual friend.

Back in the day, he lived in Bucktown with a guy, Dale M. (a cool guy who himself has some interesting stories about playing with Corgan, and being a musician/engineer/producer around Chi) who was a friend of mine. Dale, at the time was hooked up with this beatiful artist, Kathy, and they had a huge loft that always had something arty going on - art shows, bands, whatever.

(Kathy was quite the looker; they gave me a nude self-portrait she did in blue, some kind of print, that I had on my wall until I got married; another thing the ex trashed. )

Wesley lived with them, I think off and on, and from going over there I became a frequent head-buttee.

This was right around the time he got his hands on his first Casio (I think Dale actually gave it to him?) and so I would have to hear his latest tune, after the head-butts, of course.

I recall when Wesley got slashed in the face on the El; I saw him the next day...

I kinda fell out of that scene (I was older, and I prefered bars) around the time the second CD came out; I have 2 or 3 of them.

But for years I would see Wesley around at the street fests, and he always recognized me and gave me a good head-butt; towards the end he had a permanent bruise on his forehead.

Oh, and I have a drawing he did for me, about 12" square, glued to a guitar case; it's of a CTA bus on the Drive.

[dubh dubh dubh]

oh yep yes yabetcha, I love mixing other people's tracks. Actually, that is ALL I've mixed for several years now. I feel like I'm always mentioning having parkinson's but *sigh* it seems relevant to everything I do I just can't sprint around and mic up/etc like I could 10 years ago, but dang I sure can sit in the chair!

For the last while I've been mixing projects that come to me via FTP; the bands post their source tracks, I pull them down, put 'em in the mac and do it up. Though I doubt more than a very few peeps on the TOMB have heard anything i've mixed, it's neat that i get a trickle of bands that have me mix their stuff.

Super excited that I'll be mixing in Jackpot! on October 28-30, a band called Yakuza from Belfast northern ireland is flying out here to portland. I'm downloading the last tracks as I type-- yay for cheapish high(ish) speed internerd. I think I'll ask Larry about if I can write an article about this method of working, since I know I can't be the only person doing it.

I think that the 'fresh ear' perspective and focus on 'what's best for the song' is always a good idea. I always insist on somebody else mastering the stuff I mix; last project went to golden, and I really like rfi in seattle. I think the one main 'trick' or whatever I use is that I seem to have an ear for phase, timing, and pitch issues and LOVE taking as much time as is needed to make tracks sound 'right', however that can be defined for a given song. Heck, sometimes a totally 'wrong' phase/timing/pitch relationship yields otherwise impossible overtones or colors.

If drums need to be augmented or replaced, cool. Vocal pitches bent some, cool. I really try to be aware of what the song wants to be, and I don't think that that is pseudo-zen-babble. It makes me feel great-- the best reward-- to help a bands' self-recorded project fit together well and help them maintain the momentum they had at the beginning. We alllllll know what it's like to feel like a project has gone on waaaaaay to long and to've lost all perspective, and even my own projects, when I'd reached that point and gotten a trusted person to mix them, became a million percent more like what I'd envisioned wanting when I'd started them.

And I've learned some important but painful lessons, re: the best outboard/plugins/voodoo rituals can't solve a lame performance or horribly intonated guitar track! If the tracking engineer wasn't into it/was deaf/hung over/high (and long ago I was all of the above, sometimes all at once!), you can't make a turd into a treasure...

[dubh dubh dubh]

ah and btw...
Wesley Willis and Pleaseeasaur shows years ago = utter, unmitigated brilliance...