recording synth / electric piano - direct or mic?

[cyantologist]

I'm recording a few songs for my band and haven't really had much experience doing synth stuff. I was wondering what others do for "go-to" setups for recording synth and electric piano. Our keyboard player runs both through an amp with a 15'' speaker and it gets a pretty good and clean sound. I've also read that tube pre's and synths go hand-in-hand. I plan to experiment, but I'm sure some of you would be able to provide some great input and help. And also, if it's worth micing the amp, what kind of mics and preamps should I try first?

I don't have a huge mic selection. Rode NT1 and NT2, Senn. 906, SM57s, AKG d112, some cheapo akg SDCs and random others.

My preamps are a UA Solo 610, Mackie onyx 800r, and the pres on my focusrite saffire pro 26io.

Any input / advice would be really appreciated.

[drumsound]

I usually DI them but not always...

[kayagum]

I bet your UA 610 DI would work well for this.

Mic'ing a keyboard amp is not as easy as you think, mostly because you have at least two (tweeter/horn, woofer), and sometimes 3 elements to mic. You can either mic the whole cabinet from a distance, or you may try a mic on each element.

Obviously, you can try it all simultaneously, and pick and choose later. Don't forget to take phase into account if you're using multiple mics.

[I'm Painting Again]

It'a an easy thing to pick (DI vs. Miced cab) IF you know what you like..so I think you should try both and see which sound you like better as it applies to the entire mix of each song..

then the more you practice recording your piano/synth the better you can make it sound..

you have like a handful of options that you listed..try them all in every creative configuration you can think of..this will not only allow you to figure out the most appropriate sound but give you a more indepth knowledge of your tools and what they do..

[megajoe]

Like others have said, there's a time and place for both. For me, in most cases I would say DI. Most synth players only use an amplifier because they have to be heard. In other words, the amp is just an undesired color in between the patch they have created and the sound heard.

[darjama]

The the keys player is playing a lot of low frequency stuff that is interfering with the bass guitar, I'll run it thru a guitar amp (the nicer the better) and reap the benefit of the way it cuts the low end.

[roygbiv]

Hey

I have a similar question, (and similar mic setup, BTW).

At the moment, I'm recording my keys live with the band by taking a DI out from the keyboard amp. Before the amp, I dirtify some of the keys by running them through an old Pod 2.0.

However, I've been pondering whether to also capture a MIDI out (for the keys that have that option).

However, I'm pretty ambivalent about MIDI. For me anyway, MIDI recording is usually is a wash - great flexibility offset by mind-numbing complexity. [Like most things computer related].

But it tempts me still. It whispers to me "you could use the MIDI to trigger different sounds, perhaps using better presets (especially for the piano sounds)."

Anyone have experience doing this? Or does this approach just rapidly deteriorate into "cant-make-a-decision-dang-I-can't-remember-what-patch-was-that-again-shit-I-hate-this" mode. Don't want to strangle my already weak and gasping muse.

thanks

[cyantologist]

thanks for the replies everyone! good idea too, darjama, i'm curious to see how it'd sound through our guitarist's fender twin.

i'm tracking drums tonight at our practice space. can't wait. and also resisting asking like 5,042 questions and flooding the board

[ashcat_lt]

You haven't really said what kind of synth sounds you're looking to get. If it's analog or "analog" sounds, an amp - especially a guitar amp - might help to get some grit in there, and round off some of the harsh top end that can come out of those things. On the other hand if you're looking for natural sounding strings, complex textural things that cover a wide frequency spectrum, or a "real" piano sound you'd probably want to go DI - just get the sound from the synth to "tape" as quick and clean as possible.

When you say electric piano do you mean like a Rhodes or are you talking one of these digital piano emulations? A Rhodes (et al) to me just screams to be run through some funky old tube amp.

I always capture MIDI when given the chance. Course, I've been working with MIDI for like 20 years, and come from a place where I didn't have enough audio tracks to capture the synth sounds until it came time for final mixdown.

I also love the way that MIDI is so easily manipulated. You can double parts, create harmonies, fix minute timing mistakes and wrong notes and all kinds of other happy crap without forcing the keyboard player to replay all those tracks. In most instances MIDI editing will achieve this kind of thing much faster than playing in real-time through the track.

And, of course, you can tweak and change the actual sounds until you've got exactly what you need for the mix. You don't have to though. Some people can use this as a positive means of experimentation and as a tool to help get the right mix. Others get overwhelmed by having too many options and a fear of comittment.

The thing about losing patches, well that's all you. You could be very careful and organized and document which patch was used for which part...

[roygbiv]

ashcat_lt wrote:

I always capture MIDI when given the chance. Course, I've been working with MIDI for like 20 years, and come from a place where I didn't have enough audio tracks to capture the synth sounds until it came time for final mixdown.

Yeah, I hear you - I actually started playing in bands before MIDI, so when it was first introduced, I got caught up in the MIDI craze of the 80's.

My experience was not good - gazillions of hours reading manuals and and figuring out MIDI code assignments, only to ultimately forget what I was trying to do. Being stoned a lot didn't help either. Doesn't seem to go well with MIDI.

Thus, many years ago, as computer recording took off, I swore off MIDI and vowed to record audio only (kind of like some people are analog only types..). Hence my current love with REAPER, a very good audio type recording unit.

But now your words encourage me. Next recording session I will capture the MIDI out of my digital piano, along with the audio. Then I can try better/different piano patches later, and run those through a other mangilizers. And then maybe reassign notations, and try some quantization and... I just hope falling off the MIDI wagon isn't going to hurt my brain again.

The thing about losing patches, well that's all you.

That's the problem.

[I'm Painting Again]

Being stoned a lot didn't help either. Doesn't seem to go well with MIDI.

unless you are a "club kid" of course..

[I'm Painting Again]

using MIDI is a lot simpler when you record your song to a click track and have your daw app set to the correct tempo(s)..then you can literally draw in your part..easy..

[A-Barr]

But now your words encourage me. Next recording session I will capture the MIDI out of my digital piano, along with the audio. Then I can try better/different piano patches later, and run those through a other mangilizers. And then maybe reassign notations, and try some quantization and... I just hope falling off the MIDI wagon isn't going to hurt my brain again.

I used to record my midi signals with intentions like these. I eventually realized that I work better with more limitations; infinite possibilities really freeze me up. But to each their own! Good luck!

[msmith]

I usually record synths direct, and Rhodes, Wurlis, and whatnot through an amp. There is always the context thing, whcih needs to be taken into consideration.

[apropos of nothing]

Re: direct vs. amp, and MIDI vs. audio: Do both. Hell, do all three! MIDI costs almost nothing, DAW performance-wise (or should*). Amp and direct is 3 channels -- not that many more than 2.

I almost never record MIDI, unless of course, I do. When I do, I usually have a specific reason in mind for it (quick comping of keyboard patches to be audio-recorded all in one take, editing for a part that I REALLY, REALLY can't play, modulation goodness, softt synths, someone else's asstacular sound module). OTOH, nearly every time I do, I'm really glad I did it that way.

Also, don't expect MIDI to make any sense when you're high. To really understand MIDI, you have to have had four or five shots of whiskey.