Jazz Drum Overheads LDC or SDC

rashaan · Post by **rashaan** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:46 pm

I am going to be recording sort of a demo for my trio and have a few questions about drum overheads. I have decided to use a three mic set up with one overhead, a snare mic, and a kick mic. I really like the definition of the ride cymbal in Tony Williams sound on Nefertiti and the other Columbia recordings as well as the overall clarity of the entire kit. I know that much of that sound was due to the tony's sound, the room, ect. but I would like to know if anyone has any insight into that sound. I've been searching the forum looking for info on the differences between ldc and sdc overheads and while i've gotten some answers i am still looking for a more specific info. While I do plan on experimenting I would like to get some opinions from the board. Would a sdc provide more clarity in the ride cymbal but would a ldc pick up more of the kit? Thanks in advance for any opinions and advice.

DupleMeter · Post by **DupleMeter** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:13 am

I can't speak for how they setup for that session - but I do know that my best jazz kit recordings come from a 3 mic setup. 2 overheads (DPA 4021s) set to either side of the kit aiming in towards the snare and a LDC about 4ft high a few feet in front of the kit (I actually prefer the AKG C4000B for this because of it's clean low-end and a natural scoop in the 3k range). Gives the drums a very natural soundtsage.

HTH

palinilap · Post by **palinilap** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:50 am

I think Glynn Johns style micing sounds cool for jazz, and picks up a lot of definition in the ride. This thread has a lot of great info and pics:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 87&start=0

??????? · Post by **???????** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:30 am

hey that's my old thread!

Always alarming to read what you've written a year or two after the fact. I always end up feeling stupid!

idylldon · Post by **idylldon** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:54 pm

palinilap wrote:I think Glynn Johns style micing sounds cool for jazz, and picks up a lot of definition in the ride. This thread has a lot of great info and pics:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 87&start=0

I agree. I've had a lot of success using this setup when recording a good jazz drummer. I'm going to be attending a session tomorrow that will have Peter Erskine on drums, and I'm very interested to see how they mic up his kit.

Cheers,
--
Don

palinilap · Post by **palinilap** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:48 pm

idylldon wrote:
palinilap wrote:I think Glynn Johns style micing sounds cool for jazz, and picks up a lot of definition in the ride. This thread has a lot of great info and pics:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 87&start=0
I agree. I've had a lot of success using this setup when recording a good jazz drummer. I'm going to be attending a session tomorrow that will have Peter Erskine on drums, and I'm very interested to see how they mic up his kit.

Cheers,
--
Don

Nice! Beats my Monday.

brad347 wrote:hey that's my old thread!

Always alarming to read what you've written a year or two after the fact. I always end up feeling retarded!

Awesome thread though... it really clarified the technique for me.

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:04 pm

rashaan wrote:I've been searching the forum looking for info on the differences between ldc and sdc overheads and while i've gotten some answers i am still looking for a more specific info. While I do plan on experimenting I would like to get some opinions from the board. Would a sdc provide more clarity in the ride cymbal but would a ldc pick up more of the kit? Thanks in advance for any opinions and advice.

Which LDC and which SDC?

Plugged into which preamp to what recording format? etc.

it all sounds different and the differences should be used to flatter the instruments you are picking up with your mics..

It's like asking if one variety of apple tastes better than another or something..

The answer is so easy it's retarded..put up the damn mics and find out..

In my limited experience I find LDC have the Low frequency advantage over SDC..seems like the pick up more..I dunno..if that is an advatage or a problem in your specific setup at that point in the heavens I couldn't say..

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:38 pm

just play like tony and throw a 57 on the floor in front of the kit.

john

b3groover · Post by **b3groover** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:26 am

I've been getting good sounds by using a modified Glynn Johns technique and a pair of mod'd MXL 603s small condensers. One of the benefits is really nice cymbal definition. Add a kick mic and maybe a snare mic and you're good to go. I'm using a preamp made from Quad Eight mic pre cards that sounds pretty ridiculous.

I have also tried a M/S setup using an AKG 414B/ULS in figure 8 as the side and a MXL 603s as the mid. Different sound, not as much cymbal definition, but still cool.

I've also used the MXL 603s in an ORTF configuration at about tom height, four feet or so in front of the kit. That gives a nice balanced picture as well.

I don't have a really good pair of LDC mics to try, unfortunately. I'd like to borrow my buddy's Royer mod'd MXL 2001 and pair it with mine for overheads, just to see what it sounds like.

Nineteen Billion · Post by **Nineteen Billion** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:10 am

What's the mod on your 603s mics?

b3groover · Post by **b3groover** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:50 pm

Nineteen Billion wrote:What's the mod on your 603s mics?

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewto ... t=mxl+603s

Easy to do and really opens the mics up.

I'll be turning a pair into tube mics soon.

Nineteen Billion · Post by **Nineteen Billion** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:26 pm

Holy Crap B3, thanks so much. This is thrilling.

b3groover · Post by **b3groover** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:51 pm

Be careful which caps you get; it is a very tight fit. There was a post in another thread just awhile ago with some Mouser numbers for the polypropylenes that fit. I think it was in the Royer thread in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum.

Greg Nagy · Post by **Greg Nagy** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:58 pm

idylldon wrote:
palinilap wrote:I think Glynn Johns style micing sounds cool for jazz, and picks up a lot of definition in the ride. This thread has a lot of great info and pics:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 87&start=0
I agree. I've had a lot of success using this setup when recording a good jazz drummer. I'm going to be attending a session tomorrow that will have Peter Erskine on drums, and I'm very interested to see how they mic up his kit.

Cheers,
--
Don

OK, the suspense is killin me...what did they do???

xusr · Post by **xusr** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:14 am

seriously...bring on the dirt!!

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Jazz Drum Overheads LDC or SDC

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