Please....help with eq'ing

[dennisjames]

I just completed tracking and I'm working on a mix. The instrumentation is 2 acoustic guitars and a vocal. I'm using a Roland VS-2400 and do it all ITB. When I brought the levels up with the mastering plug-in in order to submit a version to be considered for a compilation album, I noticed a "howl". I believe it to be primarily on one of the guitar tracks but it seems more pronounced when NOT solo'd. I'm pretty sure it's not coming from the other guitar track and can't quite locate it on the vox. The suspect track is a lead guitar part played on an old arch-top. I've got it compressed to keep up with the fullness of the other guitar which is a driving boom chuck and I fear the compression may be exacerbating the "howl". My question(s):

How should I approach corrective eq? I've swept a narrow band to locate the egregious frequency and need suggestions on how to approach the Q and how much to cut. It seems to be around 3100 (G7)

Is it appropriate to apply a cut at different octaves to reduce this type problem?

This is my first go at engineering and I'd appreciate any advice on the matter.

[jonathan]

Everything is appropriate-

Do whatever it takes to make it sound good. Apply as many cuts as you need...
I like high passing and low passing, try those eq's too.

There are no rules----

my .02

[thethingwiththestuff]

um...i think we can be a little more specific with this question. and i don't think hi/lo passing is gonna do what he needs...

try starting with the bandwidth real tight and and boost to find the most offending frequency, then sweep a little below and above it to see how many surrounding freuencies are also screaming out. widen your q till you hear that whole range effected, than pull it down.

i often find that once i do this, if its a room thing, another weird ring becomes more dominant, and it's usually like a 5th away or something, and i'll try to notch that out a bit as well. sometimes, yes, i might do smaller cuts at two octaves when its an obvious multiple.

[themagicmanmdt]

^agree.

and, if you feel that the compression is making it worse, patch the EQ in *before* the compressor. you might have to EQ whatever range you find 'out' a little more, because the compressor has a tendency to slightly undo the EQ. but, if that 3k spot is hitting the compressor, and you eq it out, at least that range won't sound compressed, then eq'd (which sounds like the howl is still there, but only lower, instead of brought down naturally).

and, don't be scared to try a wider band Q for the EQ. if you use too narrow of a band, sometimes especially guitars tend to start sounding 'strange' to me.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

^agree

[thethingwiththestuff]

ooh!!! is that the new "+1"??

if i'm compressing an indivdual channel and eqing (ITB), i drag the eq before and after the comp a million times and tweak before i decide. it makes me feel like i'm doing something wrong, but it takes such a delicate balance.

i think...maybe... i tend to do corrective "surgery" before a comp, and mix-specific "scultping" post comp. but sometimes i want the annoying ring to hit the comp for dirtier compression, and then cut with eq. this is where we stop and say, "everything is appropriate."

[dynomike]

also, the OP seems not sure where the 'howl' is coming from

try muting tracks. if you can just mute one track and solve the 'howl', its in that track most likely. less likely, it could be the two guitars slightly out of tune with each other (or the vocal) thats causing a beating kind of harmonic? i doubt thats what you're talking about.

try backing off your compression. you shouldn't need *that* much compression (that would bring out weird rings, etc) when you only have 2 guitars going on. try setting up a mix with no compression on the guitars, and then apply your 'mastering plugin' (a compressor on the stereo mix, i assume?) and see where that gets you. if you still need to pump the guitars more, then add compression to the guitar tracks, while still listening through the mastering comp.

if all that doesn't help, i've certainly done multiple cuts at the harmonics. in pc plugin land, theres a few plugin eq's that actually have a harmonic option to do that for you.

[themagicmanmdt]

^agree/+1

[0-it-hz]

Okay...... How about this:

+^

[roygbiv]

+^]

[roygbiv]

sorry, that was kinda stupid on my part

wait for it......

+^[

[JASIII]

I had a similar experience way back in the cassette 4 track days. recorded a cover of sympathy for the devil, acoustic with my band at the time. it had 3 ac gtr tracks, bass, mandolin, hand perc and double tracked vocal. there's a weird, in-tune howl in the background that seems to change pitch with the chord changes. Never could pinpoint what it was but it actually sounds cool, so i didn't care.

[JamesHE]

I tracked a few songs on my album that all had a specific ring, all from the exact same setup and time period. I didn't hear this while tracking, it only showed up where other instruments got recorded. It was there, in the track itself, but wasn't apparent without something else going on.

What worked for me were many cuts with an extremely narrow Q, right around the same frequency, sort of stacked on each other. You don't need to completely kill the howl, just hide it. If you aim to mask it, it will sound much more natural than if you just try to kill it.

Your compression options are pretty limited here, no matter where it is in relation to the eq. It's always going to make the howl louder. You could throw every trick in the book at it with, eq, de-essing, expantion, compression, whatever - but the more natural results are likely obtained by just eq, and getting the volume right in the mix.

[red cross]

I just completed tracking and I'm working on a mix. The instrumentation is 2 acoustic guitars and a vocal. I'm using a Roland VS-2400 and do it all ITB. When I brought the levels up with the mastering plug-in in order to submit a version to be considered for a compilation album, I noticed a "howl". I believe it to be primarily on one of the guitar tracks but it seems more pronounced when NOT solo'd. I'm pretty sure it's not coming from the other guitar track and can't quite locate it on the vox. The suspect track is a lead guitar part played on an old arch-top. I've got it compressed to keep up with the fullness of the other guitar which is a driving boom chuck and I fear the compression may be exacerbating the "howl". My question(s):

How should I approach corrective eq? I've swept a narrow band to locate the egregious frequency and need suggestions on how to approach the Q and how much to cut. It seems to be around 3100 (G7)

Is it appropriate to apply a cut at different octaves to reduce this type problem?

This is my first go at engineering and I'd appreciate any advice on the matter.

Narrowest Q you can go to. Cut as much as you have to. Also try cutting an octave or two lower at the same time. 3K is pretty high for a "howl"? Most of the time I find myself dealing with these kinds of problems in the lower-midrange area.

[wedge]

8^]