What are Digidesign Mix Core or Farm cards?

[trodden]

these systems are rock solid and sound great. had mine for almost 5 years, never changed a thing, never updated. no need to. i do have a couple of laptops that get used on stage or for writing. but i treat my mix3 like its my tape machine. everything gets mixed off of that platform. way more powerful than any LE setup. added bonus no ILOCK and most plug ins came with the system at the time. try to find a package deal nearby if you can... i.e. computer and pro tools, turnkey ready to go. by the way i can't believe how cheep these things can be had for. i remember when JUST the core card was like 2 grand.

Cool. I've been thinking of going this route for a few years now. Still up in the air of either going 002/003, just sticking with my 001, or trying a older mix system. I mean, these things were in high end studios, and still are! I'll never afford an HD system. not even possible.. so... i've got to be resourceful. I"ve gotten 7 years out of the 001.. do i want to continue with the same latency problems with an 002 or 003? do i want to introduce more computer problems? my 001 is pretty solid besides the latency issues, and the mid-par converters, i've learned to either work around or deal with those situations.. so .. yeah... its been on my mind as well.. a lot lately.

[Colin F.]

these systems are rock solid and sound great. had mine for almost 5 years, never changed a thing, never updated. no need to. i do have a couple of laptops that get used on stage or for writing. but i treat my mix3 like its my tape machine. everything gets mixed off of that platform. way more powerful than any LE setup. added bonus no ILOCK and most plug ins came with the system at the time. try to find a package deal nearby if you can... i.e. computer and pro tools, turnkey ready to go. by the way i can't believe how cheep these things can be had for. i remember when JUST the core card was like 2 grand.

Cool. I've been thinking of going this route for a few years now. Still up in the air of either going 002/003, just sticking with my 001, or trying a older mix system. I mean, these things were in high end studios, and still are! I'll never afford an HD system. not even possible.. so... i've got to be resourceful. I"ve gotten 7 years out of the 001.. do i want to continue with the same latency problems with an 002 or 003? do i want to introduce more computer problems? my 001 is pretty solid besides the latency issues, and the mid-par converters, i've learned to either work around or deal with those situations.. so .. yeah... its been on my mind as well.. a lot lately.

I think an old mix system would do you well. I think you can get the "adat bridge" which would allow you to get a lot of IO with some other converters at a good price.

[echosound]

interesting about the 001. i have my system on the original g4 466 (really slow by todays standards) i upgraded from a digi 001 bit by bit. just the mix core card and one 888/24 at first then additional mix farm cards. i had a record deal at the time and our producer had a mix system it was the top of the line thing at the time. watching him use it everyday for 5 months after doing my own demos in LE on the 001 it was like night and day. so much faster, NO LATENCY!, many many tracks, lots of plug ins.
This is because it uses the farm cards rather than the ram or GHz processor. the computer only has to run the software while the cards are dedicated to all the hard stuff.
Bonus: newer pro tools files are backwards compatible (do a save session as 5.1 or 6.1 whatever). i've also tracked many friends who have only Mbox but need a drum studio. they leave with a nifty multitracked drum session done on my mix3 which will open perfectly on their mbox at home. going up from pro tools 5.1 to 7.1 even from my mac to their pc. done it many times.
i'm curious how many people still use these systems, when people ask me about the new digi stuff i always tell them about the joys of my "vintage" pro tools rig before i even mention my 002...
cheers

[joel hamilton]

Not to mention full TC/SMPTE support with a digisync, adat bridge (i dont know why you would get one if the 888's are going for like 300 dollars TOPS these days... You could wind up with a seriously great , powerful system for very low money. DO remember though, that the processing indeed does happen on the Farm cards, the throughput of your computer still makes a big difference in overall performance. I have used MIX+ rigs on Mac 9600's up to G3's then G4's. Never tried one on a G5.
Everything works better on a faster computer. A good, fast G4 would be really cheap at this point as well. the internal bus speed for the cards themselves seem to make a big difference. I have been tempted to get an old TDM rig just to have a portable rig! Like a 16 I/O rig in a rack...

[trodden]

these systems are rock solid and sound great. had mine for almost 5 years, never changed a thing, never updated. no need to. i do have a couple of laptops that get used on stage or for writing. but i treat my mix3 like its my tape machine. everything gets mixed off of that platform. way more powerful than any LE setup. added bonus no ILOCK and most plug ins came with the system at the time. try to find a package deal nearby if you can... i.e. computer and pro tools, turnkey ready to go. by the way i can't believe how cheep these things can be had for. i remember when JUST the core card was like 2 grand.

Cool. I've been thinking of going this route for a few years now. Still up in the air of either going 002/003, just sticking with my 001, or trying a older mix system. I mean, these things were in high end studios, and still are! I'll never afford an HD system. not even possible.. so... i've got to be resourceful. I"ve gotten 7 years out of the 001.. do i want to continue with the same latency problems with an 002 or 003? do i want to introduce more computer problems? my 001 is pretty solid besides the latency issues, and the mid-par converters, i've learned to either work around or deal with those situations.. so .. yeah... its been on my mind as well.. a lot lately.

I think an old mix system would do you well. I think you can get the "adat bridge" which would allow you to get a lot of IO with some other converters at a good price.

so i'd be able to use my alesis ai-3 along with it then i'm guessing? cause right now, i've got the 001, the ai-3, and a finalizer on the spdif for 18 ins/outs.. its great, besides the latency...

[trodden]

Not to mention full TC/SMPTE support with a digisync, adat bridge (i dont know why you would get one if the 888's are going for like 300 dollars TOPS these days... You could wind up with a seriously great , powerful system for very low money. DO remember though, that the processing indeed does happen on the Farm cards, the throughput of your computer still makes a big difference in overall performance. I have used MIX+ rigs on Mac 9600's up to G3's then G4's. Never tried one on a G5.
Everything works better on a faster computer. A good, fast G4 would be really cheap at this point as well. the internal bus speed for the cards themselves seem to make a big difference. I have been tempted to get an old TDM rig just to have a portable rig! Like a 16 I/O rig in a rack...

Interesting. I plan on keeping my G4, dual 800 as my main "studio" computer for awhile. Just going to purchase a laptop in the next few months in order to use for other computer use as well as basic portable recording. I figure, with the G4 tower, i could just downgrade to 10.3 (currently have tiger on it.. which was stupid in the first place), or just leave it as is and get a 002.

this is fun.

[trodden]

I guess the main issue then, is how the converters of the older systems compare to, first, my 001's and AI-3's converters, how they compare with the stock 002 and 003 converters, and finally how they compare with the black lion mods people seem to really be stoked about.

cause really, i'm running stock 001 and AI-3, and yeah, the two finalizer converters via spdif seem MUCH better, but i've made quality recordings on that system.

[Colin F.]

I guess the main issue then, is how the converters of the older systems compare to, first, my 001's and AI-3's converters, how they compare with the stock 002 and 003 converters, and finally how they compare with the black lion mods people seem to really be stoked about.

cause really, i'm running stock 001 and AI-3, and yeah, the two finalizer converters via spdif seem MUCH better, but i've made quality recordings on that system.

If you get the 888/24 those should be a pretty big step up from the 001. I like the 888/24s more than the 002 converters, if that means anything, but I am in no way a converter snob.

[sonicmook56]

I'm in no way a converter snob either but the 888's really do sound much better to me than 001 hardware.

These TDM systems are still very pro and absolutely love mine. I used my old G4-733 mac, and picked up a Core card, 2 888's a USD and all cables for less than what I paid for my 001.

I tell everyone who asks my opinion to put together a TDM instead of buying a new computer, getting a crappy interface, find out you don't have enough ram to run the thing, buy more crap, purchase updates.... A never ending battle.

It's really the first professional "workhorse" DAW system that's available for home recordist's, and there are still a bunch out there in the back room's of studios collecting dust.

[axissound]

Just chiming in as a guy who's running a small studio in Manhattan, pretty busy, who has an old G4/933 running a Mix system with 3 farm cards. I have some intermittent weirdness, that I think is Mac related, but things basically work fine (knock wood). I've got DSP to spare and almost never hit the wall, even in a big mix. I literally never have anyone ask whether I run HD. Folks just care what things sound like. I do get occasional HD envy, for ADC, and all the newer plugs I can't run, and the sense that the mix bus is better in HD. But then I think about having to spend $10K++ to get there, and I stop thinking about it...

Also wanted to chime on in the 888 discussion. When I upgraded from a Motu 2408 DP system to a Mix+ system with an 888-24 (both clocked from the original Apogee Rosetta), I felt like i took a sonic step backwards, which was somewhat disconcerting since it cost me almost $20K to "upgrade". Then later when I added a Rosetta 800 to my system I did a diligent but relatively non-scientific shootout where I took the exact same mix and sent it out 8 channels of Rosetta and 8 channels of 888 at the same time. It was absolutely, hands-down, no comparison. The mix from the Rosetta was wider, smoother, more detailed, less gray and fuzzy. So I saved my pennies and bought a second Rosetta 800.

Also to chime in on the ADAT bridge issue - that's how I connect my two Rosetta's to my Mix system, through adat optical. It's a really cost effective way to integrate better I/O using a Mix system without having to buy the expensive Apogee Digi Mix adapter cards. I bet they're pretty darn cheap out there. Just make sure you get a 24-Bit ADAT Bridge.

(I've also always thought the 001 was really great. My psuedo-conspiracy theory is that Digi really packed that thing with features and relatively good sounding stuff to get you hooked for cheap, so then you'd want to upgrade to their outrageously overpriced Mix systems...)

[audio[LAB]]

great discussion! I've been debating moving from a 002 to an older mix system for a while now. I always see the deals on ebay for full turnkey systems for about 5k. The problem is that a lot of times they come with things I don't really need. Like midi interfaces and stuff. Things like that I know would be cool to have but seeing as how i'm on a budget I would rather pinch as many pennies as possible.

My question is: What is the bare minimum I need to build one? I want to run a system that has a lot of inputs and outputs. 24 outs minimum.

I don't need the computer but i'd like to run the latest system possible. (i.e. osx 10.3 with pro tools 6.4)

this is what i have figured so far:

1 mix core card
2 farm cards
3 888/24


what else do i need as far as cables? Again this is for at least 24 in/out.

If I could build this system for under 2500 I would be supper happy. Is this realistic?

Thanks

[trodden]

great discussion! I've been debating moving from a 002 to an older mix system for a while now. I always see the deals on ebay for full turnkey systems for about 5k. The problem is that a lot of times they come with things I don't really need. Like midi interfaces and stuff. Things like that I know would be cool to have but seeing as how i'm on a budget I would rather pinch as many pennies as possible.

My question is: What is the bare minimum I need to build one? I want to run a system that has a lot of inputs and outputs. 24 outs minimum.

I don't need the computer but i'd like to run the latest system possible. (i.e. osx 10.3 with pro tools 6.4)

this is what i have figured so far:

1 mix core card
2 farm cards
3 888/24


what else do i need as far as cables? Again this is for at least 24 in/out.

If I could build this system for under 2500 I would be supper happy. Is this realistic?

Thanks

i'm wondering the exact same stuff!

[axissound]

I would think $2,500 for a Mix3 would be tough. Just pop onto eBay and do the math. I think Mix Core and Farm cards are still going for like $800 on the low, low end, to $1,200 or more. I wouldn't not buy a system because it has stuff like a midi interface included, because those probably aren't adding anything to the price anyway.

I would also strongly recommend adding a good clock and/or AD front-end. If you can swing a 2-channel Rosetta A/D, so that most things can get tracked through that, and then the system can be clocked to that, I think everything will sound a lot better than 888's by themselves....

[KamikazeKyle]

1 mix core card
2 farm cards
3 888/24

You are corect thats the bare minimum that you will need for 24 i/o. The problem would be getting the plugins for this system since i don't think you can buy them new anymore so it may be in your best interest to find a system with a G4 a core card and maybe one 888/24 to ensure that you get some nice plugs.

Uh also it was stated above that the prices where 800-1200 dollars a card. I think last time I checked (which was like a week ago) the cards are between $300 and $700 and the interfaces are between $400 and $750. Those have been the prices on ebay over the past 6 months or so.

[axissound]

Right you are about the prices! Times sure have changed since I last looked...

Also, good tip on the plugs. That's one thing that sucks about being stuck in PT 6.4 / Mix Land...