Trying to hold on to tape in a digital world

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:05 am

fossiltooth wrote:Are you are aware that there are probably scores of studios within a short drive from you, and that they're in the business of selling time to people who can't afford, or don't see the point in owning, tons and tons of audio equipment?

These days, $400-$600 could buy you one OK compressor, or all day in a studio with a 24 track analog deck and a real console... at least in my neighborhood...

It's kind of a no-brainer if you ask me. Just provide the talent and/or engineer.

FWIW, you could basically track to the Otari, then trundle the reel of core tracks over to a similarly equipped studio for additional tracking or mixdown. The only catch is that you'd have to be right on top of your deck's setup situation for that to work well.

And as far as workflow goes, like xonlocust said... it'll make you "fish or cut bait" for sure. You kinda have to know which way you work. For me, endless editing possibilities are a bad thing. For many of my friends, endless editing possibilities are stock in trade.

You may be barking up the right tree with the hybrid setup, but if I had a nice Otari 8-track (I'm assuming its an MX-5050 III, right? If it's something huger than that you may be heading into overkill territory) I wouldn't be in a hurry to burn any bridges.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:03 am

in the middle of tracking some new stuff with ambulance ... All tape @ 15ips sounds great and is fun!!' kinda disco-y.

this post has nothing to do with the thread, except to show that tape is still relevant.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:06 am

toaster3000 wrote:in the middle of tracking some new stuff with ambulance ... All tape @ 15ips sounds great and is fun!!' kinda disco-y.

awesome! can't wait to hear that stuff!

Mystic Steamship Co. · Post by **Mystic Steamship Co.** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:47 pm

Trust me I tried to make the 8 track tape thing work for me, I just couldn't do it. I'm sure it would work well in lots of different situations and for lots of different people but it just didn't for me. I'm a songwriter and I don't need 8 tracks at a time. I can't think of a situation were I recorded more than 3 tracks at once. If i'm doing drums I will go to a real studio instead of trying to do it on my own. I don't see the point of me having a 20 channel mixer and an 8 track reel to reel when I don't use it, it's just overkill. My problem is that I LOVE recording on to tape, it definitely is a lot more fun and inspirational than sitting in front of a computer screen. So the idea of having a good two track reel to reel for either tracking to or mixing to seems logical to me, and so does pairing it with a good two channel interface which is something I don't have. By selling my mixer, Otari 8 track, and a few other things I can get a 2 track otari, an apogee duet, and a good 2 channel pre. I think this setup will suit my needs better and allow me to get much better sounds overall.

Judas Jetski · Post by **Judas Jetski** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:19 pm

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your work flow. Are you multitracking, or just recording songs live to stereo two track?

Rick Slater · Post by **Rick Slater** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:43 pm

e.maynard wrote:
kinger wrote:I know it's not the same as tracking everything through tape, but even just dumping your final stereo mix to a tape machine can still give you that sound and will be far easier.

What sound?
Please clarify. Or create audible hiss as the case may be.

Don't worry the guitar amps will drown out tape hiss whether you are playing or they are just hissing!

I do love the sound of tape. The way it glues the instruments together especially when mixing to 1/2". I'm much more concerned about shedding than tape hiss.

Rick Slater · Post by **Rick Slater** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:47 pm

toaster3000 wrote:in the middle of tracking some new stuff with ambulance ... All tape @ 15ips sounds great and is fun!!' kinda disco-y.

this post has nothing to do with the thread, except to show that tape is still relevant.

What are you using for tape?

Rick Slater

NYC

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:00 pm

456, although lately I have been using ATR and Rmgi a lot.

John

xonlocust · Post by **xonlocust** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:20 pm

sorta just to concur w/john and fossil and the point about 16tk or 24tk... it's still a viable medium but depends on your workflow. i could still see a 1/2" 8tk being useful for a personal studio if you paired w/something like an 828 and synced to the computer and worked with a mixer. get you 7 tracks of analog, then slave the rest....

but really, the way to go is 2" - and as noted, if you're in any relatively major market - there are a ton of places who would love to have you tracking to tape. every studio owner loves their tape machines and wishes more people were using them. i just did a session this weekend where we mixed to 1/2" - and i was the first session to actually use the machine (beautiful early MCI JH110) - and they've had the machine for months. most people just don't care anymore.

this is tangential, but it was really interesting to listen to the raw tracks (on 2" 15ips GP9 [MCI 2"] through MCI 556 console), then we mixed simulaneously to 1/2" 30ips on 499, and masterlink via apogee converters. they all sounded good, but totally different. neither masterlink nor 1/2" were the same as what came off the 2" straight.

that said, i really do like digital for "sketchpadding" ideas. totally excells at that. i record all my band practices to PT. totally love it. and i love being able to hang my 828 off tape if i need more tracks. if i were a singer/songwriter coming up w/ideas, i dunno. i'd probably say fuck tape.

but when the record comes out, it'll be done on tape.

i can see the frustration today of tape if you're just rocking 8tk only for 'home' use. and this whole cost/manufacture situation w/ NOS, or shaky RMGI or expensive ATR stuff... it doens't start to be a viable/strong argument for serious record making until you're comparing apples to apples w/a properly functioning 24/16tk setup. and you're sorta committed to making it happen. i don't mean that to sound elitist - but really that's just how i feel - i wish everyone could have the chance to run a session that way. i swear you'd all cream your pinches shortes over it but what do i know... and i wish you could be in the CR and hear those transfers going back btw sources and hear for yourself what i hear...

and another thing, the session i did is going to come out on 12" 45rpm pressing at RTI - how retarded and awesome is that? all analog all the way. it is still being done, in small numbers of course. i'm definitely in the minority. and there are definiitely hassles with it. but i guess if you see yourself as being a serious engineer - i can't see how you can't be up on tape, even if you're not using it all the time - you're really just selling yourself short. it's another tool for making records and if you're serious about this craft, you should know the tools of the craft.

the fact that i can make a record top to bottom w/o touching a computer is one of the main reasons i get the work i do. niche market for sure, but it's a market. but it's funny, cuz that's just how it was not so long ago. luckily i came up at the very tail end of that era.

however, i did find 8tk RTR very valuable as a gateway drug into 16tk, and then 24th - so i kind of knew WTF i was doing by the time i started playing with the big machines.

Rick Slater · Post by **Rick Slater** » Tue May 06, 2008 4:24 am

toaster3000 wrote:456, although lately I have been using ATR and Rmgi a lot.

John

I had some shedding with RMG.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Tue May 06, 2008 4:59 am

yeah, me too. seems to be sorted out with the last batches, though... i still prefer ATR. that stuff rules.

john

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:04 am

on the entirely analog tip, i did a double 7" ep a while back that was really fun and sounds great. analog masters cut by Paul Gold... right from 1/4" to his console to Lacquer... no digital anywhere on the record, except for PCM41 on one song....

john

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:07 am

Wow, I have to get up earlier to get in on the analog vs. digital thread!!!

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:10 am

haha... gotcha.

the analog crew is too cool for sleep.

coffee?

john

jpmorris · Post by **jpmorris** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:15 am

I may as well throw my hat in the ring. Admittedly I'm doing this as a hobby, but I do everything on 1/2" 8-track with DBX. Admittedly most of it is sequenced, which gives me a lot of leeway in making tracks go further - but I can also lock in a second 8-track if I need it. Most songs work well enough with just 7. Locking the machines together is fiddly, but to me that's part of the fun.

I do use digital as well, of course, but mostly for prototyping (oh, and backing up the multitracks). If I think a song is worth doing, I'll go the extra mile and use tape. In a perfect world I'd have an all-analogue signal chain. In reality, I mix to 1/4", digitize that and then send it to a mastering engineer for additional polish.

One of these days I'd like to book a session in a real studio on 2", but I haven't quite found the time...

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