french horn

[joninc]

how do you guys like to mic these bad boys? i was thinking ribbon.

[DrummerMan]

Depends on what kind of Fr.Horn Sound you're going for. I've had good results with the following...

If you want a kind of classical sound, I'd try sticking the player in a large-ish wooden-y room. Have him/her sit about 6' in front of a reflective wall, with the bell of the horn facing that wall. Then I'd place a large diaphragm cardioid condenser 4-6' in FRONT of the player, facing him/her, or a bit off-axis to the right or left. This will get a nice reflection off the wall, but still capture some direct sound escaping from the instrument itself. Obviously, depending on the room/mic/other variables, you'd adjust the player & mic placement around a bit until it sounds good through your monitors. The theory behind this is: In a classical concert context, the bell faces away from the audience, and the sound they hear is mostly reflection. This is partly what helps make a classical Fr.Horn become that sound that can go so effectively from sweet to scarily ominous and everywhere in between.

Usually, my needs are otherwise, though, and my general need for french horn is for it to sound almost like a jazz or funk trombone. To this end I put the player in whatever room I've got and stick a ribbon mic about 3' in front of the BELL (so, behind the player) at about a 30 degree angle off axis (usually above, to avoid the floor). 3' because the french horn is basically the same range as a trombone, so at the bottom of the instrument's register, you've got some long sound waves that need to mature before hitting the mic. Even in the upper registers, you've got complex sub-tones, if you will, that will get looked over if the mic's too close. Off-axis because this instrument is SOOO dynamic that I find that having the mic stare straight down the bell can easily overload the mic/pre on some parts and be barely audible on others, and the complexity of the sound makes it hard to predict which parts will be which (Great acoustically, but hard to place in a mix). This setup would probably, I imagine, also sound good with a kick-ass tube mic, but the only times I've had access to kick-ass tube mics, I've had to use them elsewhere.

Like I said, I've had good results with these 2 setups. You could try both simultaneously, and, assuming they're not out of phase, then mix them together to get the presence or ambience that fits in your mix.

And as a disclaimer, I should say that the basis for both of these came from asking a french horn player on the session what they've used in the past, then the rest is based on my personal experience, trials, errors and observations. I am, by no means, a technical expert on the french horn (or, really, that technical about recording either, come to think of it). To that end, I'd say ask your Fr.Horn player what they think/like. Chances are, even if they're not experienced at recording their instrument, they've spent alot more time thinking about the sound eminating from it than you/I have, and might have some insights. That advice can actually go for any instrument/alist.

I hope this helps some.
Good luck.

[Professor]

I like to have the player come in, setup, and play the piece I'm meant to record.
If there are other tracks he is meant to play over, I'll give those a quick listen to get a starting point.
I'll walk around the instrument, turn my head side to side, crouch down, stand up, move around, etc. all the while trying to get a sense of how that instrument sounds, with that player, playing that piece, on that day. In particular I will make a mental note of what I like about the sound and what I don't like about the sound.
I'll also try to get a mental image of how this instrument is meant to fit into the overall sound of the project. Is it a solo instrument, a soloist among a group, a background, will he overdub several parts, etc.

Then I'll take all those mental images and sounds I've heard, walk to the mic locker and stand there looking at all my options. As I glance through the shelves I'll try to compare the tone & character of the mics to the concept I have in my head. What is the signature character of the instrument I am trying to capture, what are the icky bits I'd like to hide?
Usually one mic will jump up and volunteer for the task.... although sometimes two or even three will fight for my attention.
I'll pick the most likely one, or maybe I'll grab two, or even three, and I'll go to the room and set them up in the place where I found I liked the sound the best.
Then I'll patch the mics into the wall, go to the control room and patch them to the console or to an outboard preamp, setup the ProTools track, record enable, and listen to what I've got.
If everything went according to plan, I set the gain level and I'm ready to go. If I'm a little off, I try moving things around a bit. If I can't get it within a couple of moves (or a couple minutes), I listen again in person and reconsider my goals and options. If necessary (rarely) I go back to the mic locker for another visit.
Once the mic is in place, I set the level and run some takes.


Best thing is, this doesn't just cover French Horns, it pretty much works for anything and everything you might ever need to record.


But yeah, in case that wasn't what you had in mind, I have used ribbon mics on horn before with good result. I've also used SDCs, LDCs, small & large dynamics, and I've mic'ed them up close and from far away. It depends a lot on what you're trying to do.


-Jeremy

[DrummerMan]

+1 on what the professor said.

Just make sure...

And this may seem obvious...

when you're walking around the horn, looking for where it sounds nice, make sure the player doesn't blast a loud note while your ear is close to the bell, this can really f**k your ears up permanently! Trust me...

Also, just a side note about recording brass players, something I've come across time and time again that puzzled me endlessly until I figured it out: Alot of times, if you ask a brass player to play a loud note (so you can set your gain), most will translate that into "play a high note, loudly". You'll set your levels... hit record... and all of a sudden, CLIP! It's not because they're not knowledgeable. I'm not exactly sure why it is, but it's happened to me with some of the best horn players in the world.
Instead, ask them to play a loud note in the middle of their range. This will give a more realistic idea of what their top volume is. Just, don't ask them to do it more than a few times (remember, this is just for setting your max gain level), as this will tire out their lips, and they'll start getting kranky and pissed off at you...