On capturing vocals and acoustic guitar at the same time

telecasterrok · Post by **telecasterrok** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:07 pm

I've actually been getting decent results with one AT 4033 about 12" away from the singers mouth, angled down a bit. What are some other happening techniques? I have a limited mic selection: at 4033, at 4040, 421, 57s, and I'd like to try two or more mics at the same time... also, does anyone have success using a DIY baffle between the vocal and guitar mic?

firesine · Post by **firesine** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:56 pm

Well, if you are gonna use a combination of the two, make sure to keep the capsules as close together as possible to avoid phase cancellation.

leftofthedial · Post by **leftofthedial** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:43 am

Assuming it is more important to keep the vocal take out of the guitar take, a single figure 8 mic helps a great deal. Put the singers head in the null of the figure 8 micing the guitar at close range.

Since you don't have one in your collection, probably useless info, but perhaps you can borrow one and give it a try.

Even better, 2 figure 8's can help keep the guitar out of the vocal as well.

Also, if you have a small room, probably all bets are off.....

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:49 pm

2 figure 8 mics. I swear by it....

telecasterrok · Post by **telecasterrok** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:50 pm

leftofthedial - thanks for the tip. I'm going to rent a couple of figure 8s and give that a shot....

Cojonesonasteek · Post by **Cojonesonasteek** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:53 pm

A pair of hypercardioid mics can also work in this situation.

telecasterrok · Post by **telecasterrok** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:18 am

thanks for the suggestions, guys. Does anyone know how Ethan Johns does it, for example ryan adams "Heartbreaker"?

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:48 am

leftofthedial wrote:Even better, 2 figure 8's can help keep the guitar out of the vocal as well.

Either this, or if you have a good performer and a nice sounding room, don't even try for isolation. A couple of omnis, or maybe a mid-side setup a few feet in front can get you a great sound.

If the singer can keep her head facing forward and not look at her hands, then you can put a mic below the headstock pointing at the body, a mic past the lower bout looking at the soundhole, and a mic right in front of the singer's mouth. Move them around a bit and pan them if you want a wide image and try to get it balanced. This sounded great for me on the takes when the singer in question didn't look at his fingers while singing.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:12 pm

The fatal mistake people make is ONLY using two mics for this.

First of all, use two like kind and quality mics in a stereo configuration (x/y coincident or x/y near-coincident) for the guitar itself.

Then, use a great mic for the vocal.

Phase problems will be significantly less apparent using 3 mics and you'll have a great stereo image to show for it.

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:03 pm

I still strongly suggest 2 figure 8 mics. It will give you the intimacy in the vocal that would be hard to achieve otherwise, especially if you want to build instrumentation around the performer for the the Ryan Adams sound. Plus, the isolation really is worth it....

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:59 pm

oldguitars wrote:I still strongly suggest 2 figure 8 mics. It will give you the intimacy in the vocal that would be hard to achieve otherwise, especially if you want to build instrumentation around the performer for the the Ryan Adams sound. Plus, the isolation really is worth it....

Considering the '0' degree position of these mics on their respective sources, your thought is decent- except you will not get a stereo image in the process AND you will get 180 degree off-axis leakage/ambience.

A 3 mic configuration will allow you to choose cardioid patterns to make the overall effect seem more intimate AND in stereo.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:09 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:
oldguitars wrote:I still strongly suggest 2 figure 8 mics. It will give you the intimacy in the vocal that would be hard to achieve otherwise, especially if you want to build instrumentation around the performer for the the Ryan Adams sound. Plus, the isolation really is worth it....
Considering the '0' degree position of these mics on their respective sources, your thought is decent- except you will not get a stereo image in the process AND you will get 180 degree off-axis leakage/ambience.

A 3 mic configuration will allow you to choose cardioid patterns to make the overall effect seem more intimate AND in stereo.

Stereo isn't always necessary...

Patrick McAnulty · Post by **Patrick McAnulty** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:52 pm

drumsound wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:
oldguitars wrote:I still strongly suggest 2 figure 8 mics. It will give you the intimacy in the vocal that would be hard to achieve otherwise, especially if you want to build instrumentation around the performer for the the Ryan Adams sound. Plus, the isolation really is worth it....
Considering the '0' degree position of these mics on their respective sources, your thought is decent- except you will not get a stereo image in the process AND you will get 180 degree off-axis leakage/ambience.

A 3 mic configuration will allow you to choose cardioid patterns to make the overall effect seem more intimate AND in stereo.
Stereo isn't always necessary...

...but sometimes is really nice. Both methods sound really interesting, with their own results.

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:08 pm

I am seldom looking for a stereo image in this setting, especially since he mentions Ryan Adams. I would be looking for mood...

The off axis leakage is not an issue, unless the room is really reflective and/or shite sounding.

I am not disputing the 3 mic approach, i am just suggesting what would be appropriate given what he is looking for. I sometimes at an extra mic to the 2 figure 8 thing for fun...

scott macdonald · Post by **scott macdonald** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:25 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:Phase problems will be significantly less apparent using 3 mics and you'll have a great stereo image to show for it.

Why would phase problems be less apparent with three mics? (Honest question, no smartassyness on my part.)

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On capturing vocals and acoustic guitar at the same time

On capturing vocals and acoustic guitar at the same time

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