How Would You "Decode" a MS On A Mackie 8-bus?

[akg414]

Not sure I understand how one would accomplish Mid-Side on a Mackie 8-bus. Has anyone ever done this with any success?

[Brian Brock]

split the side. Take the mid, put it on a channel, say 8. Put one side onto the channel to the left, 7. Take the other copy of the side, flip the phase and put it on channel nine. Pan 7 left and nine right. Your channel 8 fader controls stereo spread.

That assumes that the front of the figure eight mic is pointing "left" whatever that means.

[Electricide]

do those have polarity flip switches built in?

signal into channe1, take direct out of one to line in of channel two, flip polarity.

pan 1 left, 2 right.

Channel 3 is the mid mic, panned middle.

If no polarity switch, just get a 1/4 to 1/4 cable, and resolder the tip/ring on one end, use that to go from the direct out to the line in of 2.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

no polarity on the mackies.

[akg414]

Yeah no phase on the Mackies.

And the whole "copy" process. I know how you can do this with a DAW, but using an ADAT or earlier - tape machines. How did engineers do this back in the day.

So with no phase, I could route through mic-pres with a phase switch.

So can someone explain how to do this using mic pres and (for this example) a tape machine...?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

mid mic goes to track 1.

side mic goes to track 2.

so then you need to mult the side mic to another channel. doesn't really make sense to do it to tape, as you'd lose a track. so, like electricide said, go out of the direct out of track 2 (or whatever channel you have the tape return on) on the board and back in to another channel. make a phase reversed jack for that cable. et voila.

[@?,*???&?]

mid mic goes to track 1.

side mic goes to track 2.

so then you need to mult the side mic to another channel. doesn't really make sense to do it to tape, as you'd lose a track. so, like electricide said, go out of the direct out of track 2 (or whatever channel you have the tape return on) on the board and back in to another channel. make a phase reversed jack for that cable. et voila.

Yes, but which side reflects positive diaphragm polarity?

How does this affect the stereo image?

[mertmo]

morespaceecho nailed it:

old school way is to make a magic "out of phase" cable. jump from direct out to the input of a new channel. especially easy to mult like that on a mackie, all the inputs are right there on top.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Yes, but which side reflects positive diaphragm polarity?

what is this, a quiz?

presuming your side mic was wired with the same polarity as your mid mic, then whichever way the front of it was pointing would be positive. so if you mic and pan things audience perspective like i do, then the answer to your question is the left side.

How does this affect the stereo image?

i don't know jeff you tell me. presumably it sounds better if the polarity is correct relative to the mid mic? your stereo image will be reversed and you'll have to use the pan knobs? i've not really liked ms micing the few times i've tried it so i haven't done it much at all. so i dunno.

[akg414]

*ducks head and moves toward the door*

Ok guys, thanks. See ya later...

[xonlocust]

the only thing to add is that when going direct out from your side channel, you need to make sure that your mult/copy/whatever you want to think of it as is the same level as the original.

to do this first you flip polarity (as mentioned in all the other posts) but pan both tracks center (alternately if the console has a MONO monitor switch - you can engage this) and bring your trim up until the new 'copy' channel totally nulls out the 'original' channel. you now know the two signals are truly out of phase - and on my console at least [soundtracs MR], going direct out from the one channel into another isn't automatically at the same level. if they aren't at the exact same level, your stereo image will be lopsided. it is also fun to listen to the signal 'disappear', makes you hear relative phase relationships along the way, and is one of those things that makes you feel like you're really 'engineering' vs the more creative side of things.

this of course isn't an issue in DAW land, but make sure you know your path from "the original" to "the copy" and all the places something could insert itself to alter your copy. (trim, fader, eq engage) also figure out if your consoles direct out is pre/post fader - when you lower the L side, does the image start to collapse or do you need to pull both down together? - which is a totally different issue than raising or lowering the M channel to widen or narrow the image. [think skinny, fat, or tipping like a sailboat either way - you should be able to do all of these things with those two channels after the fact] try and track down your consoles schematic or block diagram - all interesting things to think about when messing around w/MS and makes you understand your console and signal flow more.

[stuntbutt]

And the whole "copy" process. I know how you can do this with a DAW, but using an ADAT or earlier - tape machines. How did engineers do this back in the day.

Mult on the patchbay.

[rwc]

i've not really liked ms micing the few times i've tried it so i haven't done it much at all. so i dunno.

You must be a crappy engineer!

Had to beat jeff to the punch.

1/4" TRS cable with tip and ring inverted sounds best.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i'm not all that psyched about 'glyn johns' either, so obviously i'm a TERRIBLE engineer.

[dsw]

i'm not all that psyched about 'glyn johns' either, so obviously i'm a TERRIBLE engineer.

I'll bet you turn your speakers on first.