Please help me with a drum problem...
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- pluggin' in mics
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Please help me with a drum problem...
Hey everyone,
Sorry this is a longer post. I hope someone can help me with my less than ideal situation
I recently had a band come in for a full length that started drum tracking with the intention of using the same drummer for every song. But... due to the technical nature of certain parts within a given song, a different drummer (who was actually the guitar player of the band) was needed in order to play the parts accurately enough. In some extreme cases, the drum tracks for certain songs became a conglomerate of THREE different drummers, all playing the parts that they were able to play up to par. Each of these drummers have wildly different striking velocities, resulting in a somewhat disjointed sound (to say the least). The punch-ins ranged in length from entire sections of song to measure-long fills.
This is a totally less than ideal situation, but it was the only way that their drum tracks could be completed. I should mention that no amount of trying to get them to match each other's playing styles convinced them to play any differently.
In light of that, I figured that sampling the entire kit was going to be the only way to make these tracks sound cohesive enough for listeners to believe that a single drummer was playing throughout the song. However, I almost NEVER sample the snare drum and usually will do whatever I can to salvage the original snare track. FYI--I am planning to use samples that I create from the actual drums that were played and I usually use aptrigga for sampling.
The question I have is two-fold:
1) Is there any way I can salvage the original snare track? Even the tones that come out of the drum are very different from player to player... Also, one drummer was heavy handed on the drums, and the other on the cymbals, so the bleed in the snare track sounds really different as well... What can I do to unify it, if anything? I've tried every conventional method I can think of with poor results.
2) If I do have to sample the snare track, how do I make certain that each hit is phase coherent? What if one hit that I chop up is a few wave cycles off from another hit that I chop up to make the samples? I still feel like there might be an element of human error even if I zoom in as far as I can and chop from the first visible sign of the transient.
Any suggestions, tips, or information would be helpful, and thanks for taking the time to read this!
Steve
Sorry this is a longer post. I hope someone can help me with my less than ideal situation
I recently had a band come in for a full length that started drum tracking with the intention of using the same drummer for every song. But... due to the technical nature of certain parts within a given song, a different drummer (who was actually the guitar player of the band) was needed in order to play the parts accurately enough. In some extreme cases, the drum tracks for certain songs became a conglomerate of THREE different drummers, all playing the parts that they were able to play up to par. Each of these drummers have wildly different striking velocities, resulting in a somewhat disjointed sound (to say the least). The punch-ins ranged in length from entire sections of song to measure-long fills.
This is a totally less than ideal situation, but it was the only way that their drum tracks could be completed. I should mention that no amount of trying to get them to match each other's playing styles convinced them to play any differently.
In light of that, I figured that sampling the entire kit was going to be the only way to make these tracks sound cohesive enough for listeners to believe that a single drummer was playing throughout the song. However, I almost NEVER sample the snare drum and usually will do whatever I can to salvage the original snare track. FYI--I am planning to use samples that I create from the actual drums that were played and I usually use aptrigga for sampling.
The question I have is two-fold:
1) Is there any way I can salvage the original snare track? Even the tones that come out of the drum are very different from player to player... Also, one drummer was heavy handed on the drums, and the other on the cymbals, so the bleed in the snare track sounds really different as well... What can I do to unify it, if anything? I've tried every conventional method I can think of with poor results.
2) If I do have to sample the snare track, how do I make certain that each hit is phase coherent? What if one hit that I chop up is a few wave cycles off from another hit that I chop up to make the samples? I still feel like there might be an element of human error even if I zoom in as far as I can and chop from the first visible sign of the transient.
Any suggestions, tips, or information would be helpful, and thanks for taking the time to read this!
Steve
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- zen recordist
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- scott macdonald
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I was just going to say this. Forget trying to make it sound the same and just make each section sound different.MoreSpaceEcho wrote:if it were me, i would abandon the idea of making it sound like one drummer, just embrace the total clusterfuck you have on your hands, and make it sound CRAZY.
seriously.
If that won't work, then you have a crap load of editing on your hands.
[Asked whether his shades are prescription or just to look cool]
Guy: Well, I am the drummer.
Guy: Well, I am the drummer.
- curtiswyant
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+2T-rex wrote:I was just going to say this. Forget trying to make it sound the same and just make each section sound different.MoreSpaceEcho wrote:if it were me, i would abandon the idea of making it sound like one drummer, just embrace the total clusterfuck you have on your hands, and make it sound CRAZY.
seriously.
If that won't work, then you have a crap load of editing on your hands.
embrace the madness
i agree to embrace it. not knowing what the songs sound like, my first idea would be to process the trakcs totally differently and pan them differently. listen to beatles good day sunshine... one of the drum tracks is heavier on the cymbals, and the other might not even have any. i'd have to listen again.
-mike
-mike
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- Jay Reynolds
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Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless over our drummers - that our drum sounds had become unmanageable
Step 2 - Came to believe that a Message Board greater than ourselves could restore our tracks to sanity
Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our sounds and our mix over to the care of the TOMB as we understood the TOMB
Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless sonic inventory of ourselves
Step 5 - Admitted to the TOMB, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our bad drummers
Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have the TOMB remove all these defects of rushing, dragging, inconsistent technique, and reliance on splash cymbals
Step 7 - Humbly asked the TOMB to remove our crappy tracks
Step 8 - Made a list of all bands and performers we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all
Step 9 - Made direct amends to such musicians wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we got bad drum sounds promptly admitted it
Step 11 - Sought through prayer and constant internet access to improve our conscious contact with the TOMB as we understood the TOMB, praying only for knowledge of Larry Crane's will for us and the power to carry that out
Step 12 - Having had a sonic awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other engineers, and to practice these principles in all our projects
Step 2 - Came to believe that a Message Board greater than ourselves could restore our tracks to sanity
Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our sounds and our mix over to the care of the TOMB as we understood the TOMB
Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless sonic inventory of ourselves
Step 5 - Admitted to the TOMB, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our bad drummers
Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have the TOMB remove all these defects of rushing, dragging, inconsistent technique, and reliance on splash cymbals
Step 7 - Humbly asked the TOMB to remove our crappy tracks
Step 8 - Made a list of all bands and performers we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all
Step 9 - Made direct amends to such musicians wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we got bad drum sounds promptly admitted it
Step 11 - Sought through prayer and constant internet access to improve our conscious contact with the TOMB as we understood the TOMB, praying only for knowledge of Larry Crane's will for us and the power to carry that out
Step 12 - Having had a sonic awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other engineers, and to practice these principles in all our projects
Prog out with your cog out.
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- pluggin' in mics
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Why are you worried about selling it? They were the ones who went into the studio to record unable to play the parts. It's fine if the plan was to have each person play different sections but it was a kludge. I'd tell'em if they want it to sound like a consistent part then it's gonna cost them. Surely more than if they re-cut the parts with a competent player.squaresteve wrote:Embracing it is definitely a good thought. I think that may produce the coolest results. It might be a tough sell though...
Thanks,
Steve
"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."
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