recording bass w/ mic and direct blended to taste

[kilsin]

I track bass with a mic/pre/comp/tape. Now I have recently added a direct signal on a separate track, to be blended together later. My question is when others use this method do you compress the direct track? If so how much?

Just wondering what all you in tapeop land have found successful. For example maybe no compression on the mic track and heavy compression on the direct. Or the opposite. Maybe compress both with heavier compression on one and slight on the other.

[dsw]

There's no stock answer to that one, you're just going to have to try it and see, but it sounds like a good idea.
I recently tried out a phase alignment tool in this situation and was very pleased and surprised with the result. We dialed in a great sound very quickly.

[richierichie]

I've been doing a lot of phase alignment too, it's amazing how much the character can be changed with a little change in phase. If you're recording in a DAW, try out the Phasebug plug at:

www.betabugsaudio.com

I'd tend to compress the direct signal and play with the attack to control how much pick attack you allow through. But then again, the bass part i tracked today sounded like mush, so don't listen to me.

Ever.

[richierichie]

Dang, i just noticed that you record to tape. Guess mucking around with phase is out then...

[???????]

Dang, i just noticed that you record to tape. Guess mucking around with phase is out then...

Not if you use delays carefully, you can time-align the direct with the mic if you carefully delay the direct by a few ms.

[squaresteve]

This doesn't have so much to do with compression as it does with the fact that you have both the DI and the miced track to play with... It is nothing new, but something I often find myself doing is high passing the miced track (to reduce proximity effect and to make room for the consistent low end that the DI provides) and low passing the DI track (to let the tone of the amp shine through) at roughly the same point. Not appropriate all the time, but definitely worth trying if you haven't before.

- Steve

[C_R_J]

its not like a rule i live by or anything, but i have a lot of luck recording bass with a direct line, and with a shitty mic. always works nicely . im guessing its cause the direct line gets me all my nice super clean low end, and the shitty mic gets it dirty and brings though the upper stuff nicely.

dont lose any sleep over this. you are on the right track.

and the phase delaying is fun stuff. you can really get a nice sound if you get em lined up just right.

what are you recording with? individual tracks might have delay compensation on them of some sort that could solve this easily. i know ableton has this for me.

[drumsound]

I may compress both the mi and the DI while tracking. Sometimes I'll use a stereo compressor so that there aren't weird pumping at different times within the track. Many times during mixing I'll use a bass parallel compressor this is fed by the blend of both the mic and the DI going to the compressor and then being returned as a 3rd bass source..

[joel hamilton]

I will start with the DI, and have a ton of parallel stuff going on. some for harmonic animation via slight distortion, some for lowpassed driven sub sonic generator stuff, some for wave-folder/lowpass stuff, all of them with different time constants from different compressors. with one, I will want just the attack to really stand out, with another, I want it to be the "development" of the note, and with another, I will have the sustain really pronounced.

This is not every time, but that is some of the stuff I will do. SOmetimes on ly one, sometimes none, sometimes more than that in parallel. I will also have a compressor pre AND post EQ right in place on the channel.

[rwc]

I started working at a studio full of, for the most part, total crap.

It was a lot of work to get stuff to sound the way it was in my head and on records I liked.

However, I always wondered what people's issue was with getting mic/DI stuff working. I also wondered why stuff I got to mix from elsewhere never had bass that sounded as good as the stuff I did effortlessly.

Apparently, in spite of all the crap this place had, they have an amazing david eden amp, a great basshead(serviced by yours truly) , and a great fender bass...

when I have all these, and the amp sounds great, I could typically give a fuck less about the DI.

8 inputs, waste of a track!

a 4033 or 4050 up against the amp sounded great. adding the DI never made it sound as cool as making the eden amp track louder.

If I like the sound coming through the amp a lot, I don't bother taking a DI.

[rwc]

I also noted how little compression one needs when everyone is in the same room in close proximity, playing together with whatever can't be heard over the drums coming through PA speakers on the floor.

I try to work this way to make it easier.

[???????]

I also noted how little compression one needs when everyone is in the same room in close proximity, playing together with whatever can't be heard over the drums coming through PA speakers on the floor.

I try to work this way to make it easier.

Right. Good musicians will create a good ensemble blend without ever thinking about it. They will make the stuff 'sit' in the mix because they will be reacting to stuff they hear from one another that they might not get through headphones alone.

[BobbyRay]

Thanx for all the great responses. I understand about phase issues, there are no problems there. I'm asking for compession suggestions when using one track of direct and one with a mic? Im thinking I should probley heavily compress one and not the other.

[joel hamilton]

Thanx for all the great responses. I understand about phase issues, there are no problems there. I'm asking for compession suggestions when using one track of direct and one with a mic? Im thinking I should probley heavily compress one and not the other.

You should mess with both or either or neither until it sounds great.
For real.
Without hearing it, I couldnt tell you. Without knowing what vision you have for it, I couldnt tell you. Without hearing the song, I couldnt tell you... but I can tell you this:
if it doesnt sound good now, mess with it until it does.
"good" is up to you.
For real.
Have a vision for the sound, then use whatever you have to pursue that vision. Thats recording/mixing in a nutshell, on any level.

[losthighway]

I will start with the DI, and have a ton of parallel stuff going on. some for harmonic animation via slight distortion, some for lowpassed driven sub sonic generator stuff, some for wave-folder/lowpass stuff, all of them with different time constants from different compressors. with one, I will want just the attack to really stand out, with another, I want it to be the "development" of the note, and with another, I will have the sustain really pronounced.

This is not every time, but that is some of the stuff I will do. SOmetimes on ly one, sometimes none, sometimes more than that in parallel. I will also have a compressor pre AND post EQ right in place on the channel.

You seem to have some of the most complex comp techniques I see engineer's using (re- your cool negative ratio trick). When I hear some of these ideas I picture a patchbay just full of cables. Do you do any of this stuff ITB or do you just manage a complex signal flow really well?