when to use a limiter instead of compressor?

[joninc]

hi everybody - i have a portico compressor which
doubles as a limiter and i am trying to understand
where you might want to use the limiter function rather
than compressor and why?

it seems like more of a mastering thing to me but hey - what do i know - so that's why i am asking.

[farview]

One of the instances you would use a limiter in would be when you were just trying to catch transients and leave the rest of the signal alone.

Compressors tend to work on more of the signal and color it a little more than a limiter (properly set up) will.

[joninc]

ok - that's helpful for sure as a principle.

what about a few real world examples where that might be used - in mixing say.

drum overheads? strummy acoustic guitars? percussion?

i know i know - i need to mess around myself and i will - just looking for a few little tips on places it's especially cool/helpful. people often talk about limiters in reference to the beatles - where would they have used them prominently?

[signorMars]

instances where i have used a limiter... on drums and vocals where there are occasional spikes in the level that might clip the channel or the compressor if that follows the limiter. i know a bunch of the anti-compressor purists will say to automate the channel instead... and sometimes i do... but a lot of times the limiter sounds more natural to me. sometimes i use it before the compressor, usually vocals go this way, sometimes after... usually for drums. i also just barely touch the level most of the time, unless you're going for a specific heavily limited sound.

i've also used it sometimes on stuff like acoustic guitar when a compressor just doesn't quite cut it as far as making the transient more manageable... like a really pick heavy acoustic with no chance to retrack.

also mastering, but that's a whole different beast.

[mertmo]

Interesting thread on Gearslutz right now that gets into some great detail regarding what you guys are talking about:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end ... n-why.html

The context is not the same, but it has some cool info in it.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I'm a big fan of limiting on rock vocals, even better on heavy, heavy rock. It helps them sit well in a dense mix.

[song-writer]

If you don't LIMIT your alcohol consumption your head will feel COMPRESSED in the morning.....There is a paragraph on limiting in a 39 page Home Studio Guide that I printed off of the Tascamforums website. The guide gives major information on compression. The paragraph on limiting reads as follows: AUDIO LIMITING Controlling Peaks:

In digital recording there are extreme peaks that can cause the overall average level to be low. If you are mixing down to analog tape, many of these peaks have been"rounded off" by the tape. You can control these peaks with the LIMITING function of most compresors. This is accomplished by setting the ratio very high (10:1 or more). According to Ben Blau of RID:

"To achieve this, engineers often seek to use very fast attack and release times with a high ratio and a hard knee. This will very quickly reduce the gain on the audio peaks, which are often not noticeable top the ear. This is quite common in mastering, since it allows mixes to be recorded much louder on digital media, such as CD's without going into digital clipping. In other words, -6db of peak gain reduction will allow a song to be recorded twice as loud to your ears on a CD!"

Hope this is helpful, as I am trying to learn about compression and limiting myself. I guess the only way to really learn this stuff is by experimenting with at and seeing what sounds good and what doesn't. And if we stay out of the way of a hard knee we will probably be okay.

[joninc]

lots of good throughts here...

but what about my ADL 1000 - it's a tube opto compressor/limiter.

well - what is it? it's a fixed ratio - all you can adjust is the input and
gain reduction. so is it limiting?

or opto mode on a distressor is 10:1 - is that limiting? it's a really slow attack and fast release.

i use opto compression on these units all the time for vocals, bass, acoustic, guitars, snare etc... am i limiting then?

[wedge]

They're good for use on bass guitar... Especially thumpy rockin' stuff, when you really need a consistent volume level on each note...

[lysander]

They're good for use on bass guitar... Especially thumpy rockin' stuff, when you really need a consistent volume level on each note...

+1

[The Real MC]

Opto based limiters cannot slam down a spike as fast as a VCA based limiter. There is an inherent latency in the opto element.

[FirstNLast]

i'm a little surprised you ponied up for a portico and an adl1000 without knowing exactly what they do?

[pootkao]

i'm a little surprised you ponied up for a portico and an adl1000 without knowing exactly what they do?

[UXB]

lots of good throughts here...

but what about my ADL 1000 - it's a tube opto compressor/limiter.

well - what is it? it's a fixed ratio - all you can adjust is the input and
gain reduction. so is it limiting?

or opto mode on a distressor is 10:1 - is that limiting? it's a really slow attack and fast release.

i use opto compression on these units all the time for vocals, bass, acoustic, guitars, snare etc... am i limiting then?

Just an FYI - if I understand the adl, it's not a fixed ratio, being opto. The ratio will change curve depending on the way the program input changes, and this is unique from design to design. It's probably considered a limiter because the ratio approaches infinity as the gain reduction is hit harder and harder, but most opto boxes (most not all) are slow to detect, so the transients don't get strongly affected, which you may or may not want.

The ratio, knee, and general topology (detector, gain circuits) will contribute to the character of the compressor. As a guitarist, I have thought of compressors like I do distortion boxes (not in application, but in analogy)- all distortion boxes distort, but they all sound so different, and I seem to want them all! There's an application for each.

You have some nice kit there. Don't feel you have to use it to just compress. Sometimes just running signal through an opto unit with the needle barely moving is what the doctor ordered. I think it was Joel who made a great analogy of the way a compressor can change how far a sound can project from the speaker, almost in a z-axis way.

Hope this helps!

Best,
H

[Waltz Mastering]

Limiting is an extreme form of compression where the threshold is set 10:1 or higher.

Brick wall limiting is usually 20:1 or higher with a faster attack and release (hard knee) fast attack times on limiting will give you more of a clipped sound.

So anytime you would want to have more extreme compression use limiting.

Opto, Vari mu, Fet, Vca control etc. are all different kinds of compression. Some have advantages over others depending on what your doing or what there use is.

On vari mu and sometimes opto compression there is often no ratio control because the amount of input or gain reduction will determine the ratio.

TW