need help with gtr track/stereo imaging

[ndecarmine]

i made the [rookie] mistake of only getting one take of an acoustic track on a recording i did. i did grab a DI in addition to 2 other mics, so i guess i could re-mic it, but it would still be the same take.
i'm trying to create a stereo image and it's not possible for me to get him back in for another shot at it.
i've tried sending the gtrs to 2 sep busses, leaving one mostly dry and panning hard left, and panning the second hard right and playing around with a short delay, however i'm still not getting much of a distinct stereo image/stereo field. it's mostly still front and center. additionally, the delay is really wreaking havoc with the tones i had already gotten with some eq/compression.
like i said, getting another take isnt going to happen at this point, any other suggestions/advice?

[Al_Huero]

What length of a delay are you using? Is it 100% wet with no feedback?

[vvv]

I do a lot of internet colllabs and run into the same issues at mix time.

Some things I've done:

Play the track over the monitors and record in the room to a new track (like re-amping, but no amp), pan opposite-ish;

Play the track over the monitors and record in the room in stereo;

copy the track and delay the copy .012 seconds or thereabouts, pan opposite-ish;

use the free Blueline DX stereoizer plugin here;

copy the track and effect only one copy, say distortion and compression, or mebbe a plate (esp. a stereo plate after a slight delay), pan opposite-ish.

[ndecarmine]

i'm just using one of the basic PT plugs, a Med Dly set at about 53ms, mix at 100%, no feedback. It's not a chordal guitar part - it's somewhat fingerstyle - so I'm trying to avoid going with too long of a delay because I do want to maintain the integrity of the part.
I think part of the problem is that I set up a send with both gtr busses...should I perhaps try to take the 2nd buss and set up the delay as an insert since i'm looking for 100% of the signal to be affected?

[Dakota]

Another thing to try: make a stereo copy of the mono track, bring up the best sounding pitch shifting plug you have, shift the left side down 2 to 4 cents, the right side up by the same amount. 100% wet. Blend that track back in with your dry track, ease it in until you get some imaging. The pitch shifted track can be nudged a few ms later than the dry original, or lined up pretty tight. Whatever sounds best to you.

[Al_Huero]

i'm just using one of the basic PT plugs, a Med Dly set at about 53ms, mix at 100%, no feedback. It's not a chordal guitar part - it's somewhat fingerstyle - so I'm trying to avoid going with too long of a delay because I do want to maintain the integrity of the part.
I think part of the problem is that I set up a send with both gtr busses...should I perhaps try to take the 2nd buss and set up the delay as an insert since i'm looking for 100% of the signal to be affected?

Yeah, I think 53 ms is probably too long. Try somehting shorter. The way I've always done it is leave the original track alone and pan it left. Take a send from that track to bus with a new aux input track and using that bus as the input. Pan that one right, and insert the delay plug in on that.

[wren]

This ADT plugin might be worth checking out.

Personally, I'd try that ADT plugin first; it often doesn't sound right, but when it does it's brilliant. Next, I'd try bussing the track to a delay set at ~20-25 ms (0% feedback) to start. Pan the delayed track one way and the original the other, and add a little something (maybe chorus? I recommend the TAL Chorus-60) to the delayed track to make it a little different. Playing with the pitch as Dakota suggests can work, but I personally prefer light modulation on one track; it sounds a little more natural to me. (Incidentally, the Chorus-60 can be a nifty tool for widening stereo images, but you have to use a light touch with it because it gets a little thick.)

[darjama]

What was the mic placement? you could try treating them as a mid-side pair, even if that's not the case.

[Nick Sevilla]

Try slight chorusing to make the guitar sound wider.

Or play a guitar yourself, playing the same parts.

Cheers

[Bryantx512]

I recently did what Dakota mentioned. Copy the original mono track twice. Pan them hard left and right. Original dead center. Delay them around 18-25ms. If you want, try pitch shift 1 up 8-12 cents. The other down 8-12 cents. It worked nice on 1 track. Won't work on everything.

[JWL]

Another trick to gain more of a stereo image is to copy the track, pan them apart (not necessarily hard L/R), and make one more of a "bass" mic and the other a "treble" mic using EQ and filters, so that the bass is more to the left and the treble is more to the right.

[elevenoid]

If you tracked to click (maybe even if you didn't) try multing the acoustic, and chop the duplicate up into sections. Then shift them around, so that verse 1 plays with verse 2, chorus 2 with chorus 1, etc...

This can be time consuming, but can get you a genuine double track for any chord, riff or pattern that's played more than once in the song.

[Corey Y]

Apply some subtle stereo delay. If you have a tape delay/simulator/plugin with multiple "heads"/delay times, that's what I would use. I find you can add a lot of depth to a clean/acoustic guitar track that way if done tastefully.

Failing that, my practical (read: non plugin) solutions would be to try using verb panning out differently than the source. You could get more complicated than that, copy the track, eq and compress them differently to accentuate different dynamics and give them a bit of variety, then pan them out and keep the verb return centered or panned farther towards the center or farther out, play with and see what works.

I've yet to be satisfied by copying and offsetting a track, it always just comes off sounding like delay or light reverb to me. Failing those solutions I would try playing the track through a single monitor in the room and using a stereo mic setup...M/S, Blumlein, spaced pair. You could also just copy the track and use a combination of different dynamics, eq, editing/automation to perform the track slightly differently and just bring it up and down on certain parts for accent.

[ndecarmine]

Thanks for the advice, all. Fairly new to this so input is appreciated. Wound up going with a 2nd gtr bus/short delay insert and new EQ/comp settings, but I am going to try all these other methods as time allows and see what I like best.
And next time, I am not going to make the mistake of not getting things done when the mics are up...

[vvv]

If you tracked to click (maybe even if you didn't) try multing the acoustic, and chop the duplicate up into sections. Then shift them around, so that verse 1 plays with verse 2, chorus 2 with chorus 1, etc...

This can be time consuming, but can get you a genuine double track for any chord, riff or pattern that's played more than once in the song.

Excellent idear! I've done this before and it works well.

I often do it on backing vocals, also, to build 'em up.