LOGIC 9!

[woodhenge]

Actually, there were a bunch of people on the GS thread (link in an earlier post in this thread) that ARE running Logic 9 on G5's... you might want to go check it out...

Also, maybe I'm all wet here, but I thought I'd read that Logic 8 fixed the sample-accurate editing thing. I could be wrong... I've slept since then.

[tdbajus]

Actually, there were a bunch of people on the GS thread (link in an earlier post in this thread) that ARE running Logic 9 on G5's... you might want to go check it out...

Also, maybe I'm all wet here, but I thought I'd read that Logic 8 fixed the sample-accurate editing thing. I could be wrong... I've slept since then.

I have not dragged my tower home to update the software on it in a good 6 months, so if Logic 8 actually became as functional as the software I had in 1997, it's happened since my last update.

[woodhenge]

Actually, there were a bunch of people on the GS thread (link in an earlier post in this thread) that ARE running Logic 9 on G5's... you might want to go check it out...

Also, maybe I'm all wet here, but I thought I'd read that Logic 8 fixed the sample-accurate editing thing. I could be wrong... I've slept since then.

I have not dragged my tower home to update the software on it in a good 6 months, so if Logic 8 actually became as functional as the software I had in 1997, it's happened since my last update.

I HAD to find the answer to this to keep my OCD happy! It turns out that sample-accurate editing IS possible in Logic Pro 8 in the Arrange window if you zoom in far enough. It's mentioned on page 295 of the Logic Pro 8 user's manual under "Making Region Edits Faster and Easier". This is mainly for my own sanity, but hopefully you might be able to benefit from my OCD as well...

[tdbajus]

Actually, there were a bunch of people on the GS thread (link in an earlier post in this thread) that ARE running Logic 9 on G5's... you might want to go check it out...

Also, maybe I'm all wet here, but I thought I'd read that Logic 8 fixed the sample-accurate editing thing. I could be wrong... I've slept since then.

I have not dragged my tower home to update the software on it in a good 6 months, so if Logic 8 actually became as functional as the software I had in 1997, it's happened since my last update.

I HAD to find the answer to this to keep my OCD happy! It turns out that sample-accurate editing IS possible in Logic Pro 8 in the Arrange window if you zoom in far enough. It's mentioned on page 295 of the Logic Pro 8 user's manual under "Making Region Edits Faster and Easier". This is mainly for my own sanity, but hopefully you might be able to benefit from my OCD as well...

Uh, have you actually tried it? I can assure you that it is not the case. There is a long rant elsewhere. Logic is the only package I have used that doesn't do it. I worked in Pro Tools, Cubase, Vegas, Session 8, and they could all do it. You can also use those packages to cut a section of audio and snap it to the beginning of the bar without having to zoom all the way in to close all of the little gaps.

I don't have the manual in front of me, but what they call 'sample accurate" only happens in the sample editor window, which means you can only edit one track at a time, which also means that if you use more than 2 mikes (like on a drum kit) you are SOL.

I've moved on to using Live, which works fine, most of the time. They seem to actually work for their customers' business. Looking forward to getting the upgrade, actually- it seems to answer my one big problem with Live. Other than trying to get my UAD plugs to work.

It's always something.

[woodhenge]

Uh, have you actually tried it? I can assure you that it is not the case. There is a long rant elsewhere. Logic is the only package I have used that doesn't do it. I worked in Pro Tools, Cubase, Vegas, Session 8, and they could all do it. You can also use those packages to cut a section of audio and snap it to the beginning of the bar without having to zoom all the way in to close all of the little gaps.

I don't have the manual in front of me, but what they call 'sample accurate" only happens in the sample editor window, which means you can only edit one track at a time, which also means that if you use more than 2 mikes (like on a drum kit) you are SOL.

I've moved on to using Live, which works fine, most of the time. They seem to actually work for their customers' business. Looking forward to getting the upgrade, actually- it seems to answer my one big problem with Live. Other than trying to get my UAD plugs to work.

It's always something.

Actually, yes, I've done it "by the book" and it works. They're fairly specific about how the snap selection and zoom need to be set to accomplish this, though. If you don't zoom in far enough, it's only accurate to a 256-sample block. But it IS as accurate as doing the editing in the sample editor if you set it up right. I'm not saying it's not a pain in the ass, though...

[Jewish Guitar Hero]

I've decided to upgrade to Logic 9, but can't decide whether I should continue with Logic Express, or whether the additional content in the Studio bundle would be worth my while.
I was hoping for some opinions, in particular...

How good is Space Designer and the Impulse Response Utility compared to 3rd party plugins?

How stable is Mainstage?

Thanks

[woodhenge]

I've decided to upgrade to Logic 9, but can't decide whether I should continue with Logic Express, or whether the additional content in the Studio bundle would be worth my while.
I was hoping for some opinions, in particular...

How good is Space Designer and the Impulse Response Utility compared to 3rd party plugins?

How stable is Mainstage?

Thanks

Space Designer is a pretty awesome reverb plug. I haven't really compared it to 3rd party ones, but it sounds really good to me. I haven't ever used the Impulse utility to make my own, though. The stock ones are more than enough for me!

Mainstage was one of those things I thought I would never use when I bought the old Logic Studio. Now, I use it at practically every gig I play! With the new features they've added, it's one of the best solutions out there, IMO. I run it on a 2Ghz MacBook w/ an M-Audio Axiom 49 and it's rock-solid. Never have had a single glitch with it. It's made it way easy to program sounds for shows, that's for sure. If you play live, you'll love it, most likely.

Hope this helps!

[Gentleman Jim]

woodhenge wrote:

Space Designer is a pretty awesome reverb plug. I haven't really compared it to 3rd party ones, but it sounds really good to me. I haven't ever used the Impulse utility to make my own, though. The stock ones are more than enough for me!

+1. You can adjust various parameters within the factory settings if you find the use of factory presets to be artistically unacceptable. Honestly I can only think of a few spaces I'd want to sample, but even with a laptop I don't feel like it's necessary to go through the effort.

Jewish Guitar Hero asked:

How stable is Mainstage?

It's stable enough that I've used it as four separate stereo multi-FX units while doing live sound with a 128 sample buffer without any problems. Compressors, Space Designers, Delays, and various modulation FX. I regularly change plugs in channels during the shows, and I don't recall it ever crashing on me.

I have had people jostle the firewire 400 cable at the laptop though, and that's screwed things up. So I now use a firewire 400 to firewire 800 cable, in hopes that the 800 jack is a bit more secure. Haven't had an incident to test it yet.

[tdbajus]

Actually, yes, I've done it "by the book" and it works. They're fairly specific about how the snap selection and zoom need to be set to accomplish this, though. If you don't zoom in far enough, it's only accurate to a 256-sample block. But it IS as accurate as doing the editing in the sample editor if you set it up right. I'm not saying it's not a pain in the ass, though...

I would love to look stupid here, and will gladly take back all of the nasty things I have said, and wear the egg with pride, but I swear on my momma's eyes that I (and others) have zoomed in as far as we could go, and were not able to get to the sample level. The reason I think this is that When I try to edit at a zero crossing (made difficult by the fact that Logic changes the drawing of the wave form after you cut) I can't, and the cut pops on playback.

Please tell me I have been wrong all of these years. It's not like I haven't been zooming all the way in. How else would I think that I can not hit the zero crossings?

RE: the snapping- if you have to zoom all the way in to get it to snap to the beat marker, what good is the snap to begin with? Never EVER used any audio software that couldn't snap audio easily to a grid.

Do I have some sort of "edit suck" toggled on? I have read the manual a thousand times, and have not found this in the preferences.

[Gentleman Jim]

I'm not 100% sure this is going to make you wear egg, but I don't think the 'pop' you hear has to do with whether or not you're editing at the sample level.

If I'm thinking correctly here, (on 2 1/2 hours sleep), at 44.1 there are 44,1000 samples per second. If you had a sine wave at a frequency of 1,000 hz, it would take 22.05 samples for the sine wave to go from the zero crossing to a peak and then back to a zero crossing. Then the wave would begin the trough. So there would be no sample which starts and ends at a zero crossing, save for frequencies which are multiples of the sample rate.

Does that make sense, or is my brain as putty-like as I fear it is?

As for your "Edit Suck Toggle Mode" problem, I think the answer involves the Snap menu, located in the Arrange window just below the toolbar. I think the default is Smart. Put it on Bar, Beat, or Division for a more grid-like experience.

[sad iron]

As for the current side-discussion, when I hear the pop, I keep trying until it goes away. Not the most scientific approach, but it works and I'm not a scientist. Usually just takes a little sliding one way or the other and not more than a minute or so of work time.

Back to Logic 9, for those who have been using it, hows it sitting with you after a week or two? Much different then 8 or are there features you really find useful that weren't there before? I think the feature I'm most interested in the actually the note pad.

[DJ_LBP]

I think the feature I'm most interested in the actually the note pad.

This is probably one of my favorite things in the new Logic...instant track sheets that I don't misplace. I keep notes on mixer settings, outboard routing, etc. on the project notes and individual track notes (mic, placement, what the performer had for lunch, etc.) in their own areas.

I use it to quickly write down other ideas for new parts or editing tricks as well.

[woodhenge]

I'm not 100% sure this is going to make you wear egg, but I don't think the 'pop' you hear has to do with whether or not you're editing at the sample level.

If I'm thinking correctly here, (on 2 1/2 hours sleep), at 44.1 there are 44,1000 samples per second. If you had a sine wave at a frequency of 1,000 hz, it would take 22.05 samples for the sine wave to go from the zero crossing to a peak and then back to a zero crossing. Then the wave would begin the trough. So there would be no sample which starts and ends at a zero crossing, save for frequencies which are multiples of the sample rate.

Does that make sense, or is my brain as putty-like as I fear it is?

As for your "Edit Suck Toggle Mode" problem, I think the answer involves the Snap menu, located in the Arrange window just below the toolbar. I think the default is Smart. Put it on Bar, Beat, or Division for a more grid-like experience.

I think you're dead-on-the-money here. If there's no zero-crossing exactly at the bar line, a pop will happen for sure. Even when editing at the sample level. In Logic 8 and 9, you can actually see each sample if you zoom in far enough... (the waveform is 'stepped') I generally cheat and drop a crossfade on an edit that pops, and don't think twice about it!

I've been a pretty hardcore user since 7 came out, and used Pro Tools, Session 8, and Sound Designer for many years before that and have no beef with the editing in Logic. It works the way I expect it to, really. Actually, I feel like I have to be LESS careful in Logic! Even when I go all "BT-style" and do a crapload of stutter edits on vocals, guitars, and drums... I might have to massage one here or there, but not very often! I generally always leave the snap set to "Smart", too. I can't remember the last time I had to change it, especially to "sample"...

RE Logic 9: I'm still loving it... but I've not really used the notepad yet. It's a great idea, though, and I'll probably end up working it into my workflow. The flex tool, though, has become a part of my flow quite quickly. I'm just looking for an excuse to use varispeed!

[sparky]

I would love to look stupid here, and will gladly take back all of the nasty things I have said, and wear the egg with pride, but I swear on my momma's eyes that I (and others) have zoomed in as far as we could go, and were not able to get to the sample level. The reason I think this is that When I try to edit at a zero crossing (made difficult by the fact that Logic changes the drawing of the wave form after you cut) I can't, and the cut pops on playback.

No, you are right, pre-Logic 8. You can not make sample-accurate edits to audio in the arrange window in Logic 7 or earlier. I think the range is actually kinda big (128 samples or something?). In LP8 you can, and if you use edit tools that are not mouse-based and keep search-zero-crossings on, you can edit zoomed out sample-accurate in the arrange window, like by using the marquee tool and then adjusting your selection boundaries with the arrow keys (to find transients, say), and then you can cut, copy, set locators to selection, etc and it will find the nearest zero crossing and make the edit there, or leave that off and it will be straight sample accurate.

[woodhenge]

That was TOTALLY what I was trying to get at earlier... but way more in-depth! Thanks!!!